Hall of Fame Debates (95)
A look at Morten Andersen's PFHOF Snub
Feb 29, 2016
Written by
Committee Chairman
Last month, regular contributor, Spheniscus and I debated the Hall of Fame merits of those who were on the Baseball Hall of Fame ballot.
Now that the Baseball Hall of Fame Class of 2016 has announced their class has done the same. We were hopeful to do this prior to the announcement of the actual inductees, but life, as it often does simply got in the way!
Saying that, we felt it was worth our time to take a look at the 2016 Nominees and debate whether they should have gotten in (or not) and look to the future of the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
Now that the Baseball Hall of Fame Class of 2016 has announced their class has done the same. We were hopeful to do this prior to the announcement of the actual inductees, but life, as it often does simply got in the way!
Saying that, we felt it was worth our time to take a look at the 2016 Nominees and debate whether they should have gotten in (or not) and look to the future of the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
A look at Joe Jaocby's PFHOF snub
Feb 29, 2016
Written by
Committee Chairman
Last month, regular contributor, Spheniscus and I debated the Hall of Fame merits of those who were on the Baseball Hall of Fame ballot.
Now that the Baseball Hall of Fame Class of 2016 has announced their class has done the same. We were hopeful to do this prior to the announcement of the actual inductees, but life, as it often does simply got in the way!
Saying that, we felt it was worth our time to take a look at the 2016 Nominees and debate whether they should have gotten in (or not) and look to the future of the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
Now that the Baseball Hall of Fame Class of 2016 has announced their class has done the same. We were hopeful to do this prior to the announcement of the actual inductees, but life, as it often does simply got in the way!
Saying that, we felt it was worth our time to take a look at the 2016 Nominees and debate whether they should have gotten in (or not) and look to the future of the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
A look at Marvin Harrison's PFHOF Induction
Feb 29, 2016
Written by
Committee Chairman
Last month, regular contributor, Spheniscus and I debated the Hall of Fame merits of those who were on the Baseball Hall of Fame ballot.
Now that the Baseball Hall of Fame Class of 2016 has announced their class has done the same. We were hopeful to do this prior to the announcement of the actual inductees, but life, as it often does simply got in the way!
Now that the Baseball Hall of Fame Class of 2016 has announced their class has done the same. We were hopeful to do this prior to the announcement of the actual inductees, but life, as it often does simply got in the way!
2016 HOF Debate: Edgar Martinez
Jan 03, 2016
Written by
Committee Chairman
Last year, we did our first ever debate on Notinhalloffame.com where we tackled the Hall of Fame merit of twenty-four men who are on the Hall of Fame ballot, in what was in our opinion the most loaded ballot in our lifetime.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
2016 HOF Debate: Tim Raines
Jan 03, 2016
Written by
Committee Chairman
Last year, we did our first ever debate on Notinhalloffame.com where we tackled the Hall of Fame merit of twenty-four men who are on the Hall of Fame ballot, in what was in our opinion the most loaded ballot in our lifetime.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
2016 HOF Debate: Mark McGwire
Jan 03, 2016
Written by
Committee Chairman
2016 HOF Debate: Curt Schilling
Jan 03, 2016
Written by
Committee Chairman
Last year, we did our first ever debate on Notinhalloffame.com where we tackled the Hall of Fame merit of twenty-four men who are on the Hall of Fame ballot, in what was in our opinion the most loaded ballot in our lifetime.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
2016 HOF Debate: Alan Trammell
Jan 02, 2016
Written by
Committee Chairman
Last year, we did our first ever debate on Notinhalloffame.com where we tackled the Hall of Fame merit of twenty-four men who are on the Hall of Fame ballot, in what was in our opinion the most loaded ballot in our lifetime.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
2016 HOF Debate: Sammy Sosa
Jan 02, 2016
Written by
Committee Chairman
Last year, we did our first ever debate on Notinhalloffame.com where we tackled the Hall of Fame merit of twenty-four men who are on the Hall of Fame ballot, in what was in our opinion the most loaded ballot in our lifetime.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
2016 HOF Debate: Gary Sheffield
Jan 02, 2016
Written by
Committee Chairman
Last year, we did our first ever debate on Notinhalloffame.com where we tackled the Hall of Fame merit of twenty-four men who are on the Hall of Fame ballot, in what was in our opinion the most loaded ballot in our lifetime.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
2016 HOF Debate: Mike Mussina
Jan 02, 2016
Written by
Committee Chairman
Last year, we did our first ever debate on Notinhalloffame.com where we tackled the Hall of Fame merit of twenty-four men who are on the Hall of Fame ballot, in what was in our opinion the most loaded ballot in our lifetime.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
2016 HOF Debate: Larry Walker
Jan 01, 2016
Written by
Committee Chairman
Last year, we did our first ever debate on Notinhalloffame.com where we tackled the Hall of Fame merit of twenty-four men who are on the Hall of Fame ballot, in what was in our opinion the most loaded ballot in our lifetime.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
2016 HOF Debate: Fred McGriff
Jan 02, 2016
Written by
Committee Chairman
Last year, we did our first ever debate on Notinhalloffame.com where we tackled the Hall of Fame merit of twenty-four men who are on the Hall of Fame ballot, in what was in our opinion the most loaded ballot in our lifetime.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
Chairman: Sometimes what I think we forget that the last name of Hall of Fame is “Fame”. That is what I think of when the name Fred McGriff comes up. I know he almost hit 500 Home Runs and did it clean, from what we know. I know that he is a .500 Slugger and had it not been for the era he played in might have had more than five All Star appearances. But this guy move the needle?
What I mean specifically, is just how many people said the day of a Fred McGriff game, hey we have to go see the “Crime Dog”? I lived in Toronto where he broke through, and I never said that, and neither did my friends. Hell trading him away brought us Roberto Alomar and Joe Carter and a World Series a year later.
Did they in Atlanta, where he helped them win a World Series? Or in San Diego where he was before?
To the best of my knowledge, this is the only commercial he did:
https://youtu.be/2BEEV8Nn3vU
Does he look like a star? Does he feel like a star? I know that shouldn’t matter, but at what point do we decide that actual fame matters in a Baseball Hall?
Spheniscus: But that is the baseball training video that gets results. I have heard that it is actually also the most aired television commercial of all time. But somehow Google has no idea whether that is true. And if you are in a commercial that has aired more times than Google can even figure out, do you really need to make another commercial?
If McGriff had gotten seven more home runs would he be a Hall of Famer? I think the answer is yes. Nobody went to go see Eddie Murray play either. Although to be fair, Murray was a better player. But Murray had 11 more career homers than McGriff. So when he came up there was kind of a grudging… yeah, he’s kinda borderline but he has 500 homers… so I guess he’s just in. Of course that’s when 500 homers was 500 homers.
His other problem is that he’s probably the third best first baseman on this list. Bagwell is clearly superior and McGwire would certainly be superior if he could just take some time to talk about the past. And if there are nine positions and you are the third best at one of them, it is hard to call you a Hall of Famer off of that list. Will he stick around? Yes. Will he get over 15%? I say no. Will he ever get into the Hall? Maybe when we are old and gray and they have a Steroids Era committee. But he’s not getting voted in through this process.
Chairman: Murray hopped around after 1988, but he was a big deal in Baltimore for a decade and I’m sure “Steady Eddie” sold a few seats or two.
But I digress (yet again).
The 500 Home Run mark isn’t what it used to be, that’s true, but I honestly think that even if McGriff had seven more, he still wouldn’t be in. The 500 Home Run mark was something that elevates a career, and if McGriff caught that number, he was one of those guys who devalues it. (I know that it is a sentence usually dedicated to the PED guys)
He is a Home Run hitter who never hit more than 40 in a season. He was never a serious MVP contender (though he did finish fourth once), JAWS wise he is sandwiched between Mark Teixeira and Norm Cash, a future and current member of “The Hall of Very Good”. While I respect his longevity, it was that ability to compile stats that got him this far in the vote.
You’re right about him hovering under 15%. He isn’t going to get much more and probably shouldn’t.
Now as for that commercial; Let me show you a pair of real commercials starring the men he was traded for:
https://youtu.be/mnu9DCLJtRE
https://youtu.be/fEwBf5o9Us4
You’re welcome!
Spheniscus: Wow, they’re real and their spectacular! Although maybe that explains what Alomar was doing that September night in 1996. He just wanted Hirschbeck to catch the taste of McCain’s. With his face.
I actually think that you are wrong. I think that if the 1994 strike had not happened McGriff would have climbed his way into the Hall. He was 6 short of 40 home runs that season and if he got those plus one he would have had his 40 and his 500.
And it was a different era. He led the league in HRs twice in 1989 with 36 and in 1992 with 35. It’s not just that he wasn’t hitting a lot of homers, No one was hitting a lot of homers. And that is why players from that era have been having a tough time getting into the Hall. Don Mattingly, Dale Murphy, Alan Trammell, Lou Whitaker, Dwight Evans, Steve Garvey, Graig Nettles, Dave Concepcion, Dave Parker, Keith Hernandez, all out. Guys like Jim Rice, Andre Dawson, Gary Carter, Tony Perez, even Ryne Sandberg struggled to get in for far too long. Why? The era’s offensive stats just don’t look that impressive.
I mean his first year on the ballot the only person elected was Andre Dawson. Here are their stats side by side
Dawson wins in hits and WAR fairly handily. But in everything else McGriff is the superior player statistically. An 80 point difference in OPS is very significant. Although it should be noted that Dawson had a ROY and an MVP to his name, which McGriff does not.
Do I think McGriff will ever get into the Hall? No I don’t. But if the 1994 strike hadn’t happened, he’d be in already. Particularly with the jaundiced eye the voters have given to the steroid era the past few years. A vote for him would have been a statement vote against the era and his momentum would have shot him up the list. But it was not to be. And with only three more years on the ballot, he is a goner after 2019.
Chairman: This is definitely one of those “agree to disagree” moments.
I can concede that had he reached 500 Home Runs, his vote tally would significantly be higher, but I still don’t think he would be in; but we will never know the answer to that one.
Now you bring up Andre Dawson. Dawson is someone who I always thought was a borderline Hall of Famer, but he had something that I mentioned earlier that McGriff didn’t have. Fame. Both Dawson and McGriff were All-Stars but only Dawson was a star.
Hell Andre still is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OrQiKh1Z8o
That MVP was huge for Dawson. Even though he really didn’t deserve it. That 1987 season, Dawson put up huge power numbers (47 HR, 137 RBI) but only finished 10th in OPS (I do value that stat very much), and was not even close to finishing in the top ten in bWAR that year. He only had a 4.0, due to his declining defense and low OBP (.328).
None of that matters, as he is in the record books as a former National League MVP and a part of the legacy of the Cubs. Two other things McGriff doesn’t have as he is neither a former MVP, nor is he really part of any team’s legacy.
So we get to the end here, and would I vote for him? No, I wouldn’t, and I predict he will finish in the teens again.
Spheniscus: Yeah, he really isn’t part of any team’s legacy. I think of him as a Brave first. You think of him (rightfully) as a Blue Jay first, or rather the guy the Blue Jays traded to get themselves two World Series titles. I would absolutely vote for McGriff… if I could vote for more than 10. He is 12th on my list.
And that is part of the problem he has. Without steroids his total is higher because Bonds, Clemens, etc. are not on this list any more. So people like me would have space on our ballots. But I’m not going to avoid voting for someone better just to keep him on the ballot.
He will be right in the middle of the teens. Like he was with the Tom Emansky Defensive Drills video. That was the video that got results. Unfortunately this won’t result in his getting elected. He just needs to wait until that Steroids Era Committee is formed in 2025.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
Chairman: Sometimes what I think we forget that the last name of Hall of Fame is “Fame”. That is what I think of when the name Fred McGriff comes up. I know he almost hit 500 Home Runs and did it clean, from what we know. I know that he is a .500 Slugger and had it not been for the era he played in might have had more than five All Star appearances. But this guy move the needle?
What I mean specifically, is just how many people said the day of a Fred McGriff game, hey we have to go see the “Crime Dog”? I lived in Toronto where he broke through, and I never said that, and neither did my friends. Hell trading him away brought us Roberto Alomar and Joe Carter and a World Series a year later.
Did they in Atlanta, where he helped them win a World Series? Or in San Diego where he was before?
To the best of my knowledge, this is the only commercial he did:
https://youtu.be/2BEEV8Nn3vU
Does he look like a star? Does he feel like a star? I know that shouldn’t matter, but at what point do we decide that actual fame matters in a Baseball Hall?
Spheniscus: But that is the baseball training video that gets results. I have heard that it is actually also the most aired television commercial of all time. But somehow Google has no idea whether that is true. And if you are in a commercial that has aired more times than Google can even figure out, do you really need to make another commercial?
If McGriff had gotten seven more home runs would he be a Hall of Famer? I think the answer is yes. Nobody went to go see Eddie Murray play either. Although to be fair, Murray was a better player. But Murray had 11 more career homers than McGriff. So when he came up there was kind of a grudging… yeah, he’s kinda borderline but he has 500 homers… so I guess he’s just in. Of course that’s when 500 homers was 500 homers.
His other problem is that he’s probably the third best first baseman on this list. Bagwell is clearly superior and McGwire would certainly be superior if he could just take some time to talk about the past. And if there are nine positions and you are the third best at one of them, it is hard to call you a Hall of Famer off of that list. Will he stick around? Yes. Will he get over 15%? I say no. Will he ever get into the Hall? Maybe when we are old and gray and they have a Steroids Era committee. But he’s not getting voted in through this process.
Chairman: Murray hopped around after 1988, but he was a big deal in Baltimore for a decade and I’m sure “Steady Eddie” sold a few seats or two.
But I digress (yet again).
The 500 Home Run mark isn’t what it used to be, that’s true, but I honestly think that even if McGriff had seven more, he still wouldn’t be in. The 500 Home Run mark was something that elevates a career, and if McGriff caught that number, he was one of those guys who devalues it. (I know that it is a sentence usually dedicated to the PED guys)
He is a Home Run hitter who never hit more than 40 in a season. He was never a serious MVP contender (though he did finish fourth once), JAWS wise he is sandwiched between Mark Teixeira and Norm Cash, a future and current member of “The Hall of Very Good”. While I respect his longevity, it was that ability to compile stats that got him this far in the vote.
You’re right about him hovering under 15%. He isn’t going to get much more and probably shouldn’t.
Now as for that commercial; Let me show you a pair of real commercials starring the men he was traded for:
https://youtu.be/mnu9DCLJtRE
https://youtu.be/fEwBf5o9Us4
You’re welcome!
Spheniscus: Wow, they’re real and their spectacular! Although maybe that explains what Alomar was doing that September night in 1996. He just wanted Hirschbeck to catch the taste of McCain’s. With his face.
I actually think that you are wrong. I think that if the 1994 strike had not happened McGriff would have climbed his way into the Hall. He was 6 short of 40 home runs that season and if he got those plus one he would have had his 40 and his 500.
And it was a different era. He led the league in HRs twice in 1989 with 36 and in 1992 with 35. It’s not just that he wasn’t hitting a lot of homers, No one was hitting a lot of homers. And that is why players from that era have been having a tough time getting into the Hall. Don Mattingly, Dale Murphy, Alan Trammell, Lou Whitaker, Dwight Evans, Steve Garvey, Graig Nettles, Dave Concepcion, Dave Parker, Keith Hernandez, all out. Guys like Jim Rice, Andre Dawson, Gary Carter, Tony Perez, even Ryne Sandberg struggled to get in for far too long. Why? The era’s offensive stats just don’t look that impressive.
I mean his first year on the ballot the only person elected was Andre Dawson. Here are their stats side by side
| Years |
Hits |
HR |
RBI |
AVG |
OBP |
SLG |
OPS |
WAR |
|
| Dawson |
21 |
2,774 |
438 |
1,509 |
.279 |
.323 |
.482 |
.806 |
64.5 |
| McGriff |
19 |
2,490 |
493 |
1,550 |
.284 |
.377 |
.509 |
.886 |
52.4 |
Dawson wins in hits and WAR fairly handily. But in everything else McGriff is the superior player statistically. An 80 point difference in OPS is very significant. Although it should be noted that Dawson had a ROY and an MVP to his name, which McGriff does not.
Do I think McGriff will ever get into the Hall? No I don’t. But if the 1994 strike hadn’t happened, he’d be in already. Particularly with the jaundiced eye the voters have given to the steroid era the past few years. A vote for him would have been a statement vote against the era and his momentum would have shot him up the list. But it was not to be. And with only three more years on the ballot, he is a goner after 2019.
Chairman: This is definitely one of those “agree to disagree” moments.
I can concede that had he reached 500 Home Runs, his vote tally would significantly be higher, but I still don’t think he would be in; but we will never know the answer to that one.
Now you bring up Andre Dawson. Dawson is someone who I always thought was a borderline Hall of Famer, but he had something that I mentioned earlier that McGriff didn’t have. Fame. Both Dawson and McGriff were All-Stars but only Dawson was a star.
Hell Andre still is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OrQiKh1Z8o
That MVP was huge for Dawson. Even though he really didn’t deserve it. That 1987 season, Dawson put up huge power numbers (47 HR, 137 RBI) but only finished 10th in OPS (I do value that stat very much), and was not even close to finishing in the top ten in bWAR that year. He only had a 4.0, due to his declining defense and low OBP (.328).
None of that matters, as he is in the record books as a former National League MVP and a part of the legacy of the Cubs. Two other things McGriff doesn’t have as he is neither a former MVP, nor is he really part of any team’s legacy.
So we get to the end here, and would I vote for him? No, I wouldn’t, and I predict he will finish in the teens again.
Spheniscus: Yeah, he really isn’t part of any team’s legacy. I think of him as a Brave first. You think of him (rightfully) as a Blue Jay first, or rather the guy the Blue Jays traded to get themselves two World Series titles. I would absolutely vote for McGriff… if I could vote for more than 10. He is 12th on my list.
And that is part of the problem he has. Without steroids his total is higher because Bonds, Clemens, etc. are not on this list any more. So people like me would have space on our ballots. But I’m not going to avoid voting for someone better just to keep him on the ballot.
He will be right in the middle of the teens. Like he was with the Tom Emansky Defensive Drills video. That was the video that got results. Unfortunately this won’t result in his getting elected. He just needs to wait until that Steroids Era Committee is formed in 2025.
2016 HOF Debate: Jeff Kent
Jan 02, 2016
Written by
Committee Chairman
Last year, we did our first ever debate on Notinhalloffame.com where we tackled the Hall of Fame merit of twenty-four men who are on the Hall of Fame ballot, in what was in our opinion the most loaded ballot in our lifetime.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
Chairman: I like Jeff Kent. I really do. I remember hating it when the Jays traded him, thinking that he might be something special, but considering the result (We got David Cone and a World Series that year) I can’t complain too much.
Still, when Kent would later light it up for San Francisco, including what would be an MVP season in 2000, I always thought of what he would still look like in a Jays uniform and how well he would fit in…and perhaps not fight with anyone in the dugout.
Kent is entering his third year on the ballot, where he dipped a bit last year to finish at 14%. I think he will see an increase as he was probably on the list of a few writers at the 11-14 spot, and with only Griffey (maybe Hoffman) replacing Biggio, Johnson, Martinez and Smoltz, the still thick log jam has lost a bit of lumber.
Still, if Kent can at the very least raise his total to 25%, with the reduced ballot tenure, I don’t think he has a shot to make it. Can he get an 11% increase?
Spheniscus: 11% seems like a lot. If only because there are plenty of people who aren’t voting for 10 names every year. I remember thinking as his career wound down… damn, Kent is a borderline Hall of Famer. And the Hall of Fame predictors seem to hold that to be true.
On Hall of Fame Monitor where a 100 score is a likely Hall of Famer, he is a 122. On Hall of Fame Standards where 50 is a likely Hall of Famer, he is a 51. For Gray Ink, though where an average Hall of Famer is a 144 score, he is only a 71. And JAWS holds him to be the 18th Greatest Second Baseman of All Time. All of whom, except #7 Bobby Grich (really?), #11 Lou Whitaker, #12 Chase Utley (still playing), #16 Robinson Cano (still playing, but really?), and #17 Willie Randolph are in the Hall.
So his argument is pretty good. Better than his excuse of getting injured washing out the bed of his truck when he actually crashed his motorcycle trying to pull wheelies anyway.
Given a rational list, meaning one where they had figured out what was going on with the whole steroid era, he would probably find his way into the Hall. But who knows? I mean you and I both think that no one got screwed during this process more than Lou Whitaker who never even made a second ballot. So it’s entirely possible I’m wrong. Kent will be on the ballot next year. But I don’t think he’ll get another 11%.
Chairman: You are right (again) that we both feel the same about Whitaker being screwed and about Kent not getting another 11 points. Quick question…before I move on…so you are not saying Grich belonged in the upper echelon? We have another discussion if that is the case!
Let me throw this at you. I think that the voters know they made a mistake with Whitaker, or at the very least erred that he should have stayed on the ballot a little longer. I am putting my conspiracy hat on and saying are they happy that he made a few more ballots so that there is no mistake?
You know what Spheniscus? After writing that, I know I am going off the deep end with that theory.
Let me throw something else at you. Do you think his “good ole boy” image that we saw in Survivor plays against him?
Spheniscus: I am not arguing that Bobby Grich was a great player, but the 7th greatest 2B of all time? That is better than Jackie Robinson. I have a hard time believing that Grich was a better player than Jackie Robinson.
As for being on Survivor and his image, it really is hard to think of a personality in sports less suited to game based on social skills than the prickly, at best, Kent. The good ole boy image was his version of Commander Data getting an emotions chip implant. He put it on because he didn’t know how else to interact with the world. Survivor’s choice of Scot Pollard for this year’s season is a much better decision.
All this said, Kent directly benefits from Biggio being gone from the ballot. I mean the second best second baseman on this list is Luis Castillo. And while we are doing 24 of these things, he is not one of them. How much of a jump do you think he gets?
Chairman: To Grich’s defense on being over Jackie Robinson, the trailblazer didn’t enter the Majors until he was 28, and had there been no color barrier, surely would be higher.
In regards to Survivor, I can give you one personality less suited for the show, and he did do it…John Rocker. I don’t know if you watched it, but if you haven’t it was exactly the disaster you thought it was!
My dream Sports Survivor sixteen you (didn’t) ask?
Sean Avery
Charles Barkley
Shawn Bradley
John Daly
Rickey Henderson
Caitlyn (Bruce) Jenner
Carl Lewis
Diego Maradonna
Steve Nash
Terrell Owens
Rafael Palmeiro
Bas Rutten
Pete Rose
Latrell Sprewell
Mike Tyson
Kurt Warner
That is ratings gold!
Oh…I don’t vote for Kent, though he is close on my ballot. I think he creeps up, but only to 17%.
Sphensicus: Very interesting group, although that is more a list for a Survivor Series than Survivor. Plus having Sean Avery on any show that isn’t Celebrity Deathmatch is not a show I am interested in. Seriously, fuck that guy. Although hopefully Tyson would take care of him. Quickly.
Anyway, Kent is someone I would vote for. He has my 11th spot. He originally had 10th, but with researching this someone who is upcoming took that spot from him. But I think that you are right on with the percentage. 17% is probably the right number for him.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
Chairman: I like Jeff Kent. I really do. I remember hating it when the Jays traded him, thinking that he might be something special, but considering the result (We got David Cone and a World Series that year) I can’t complain too much.
Still, when Kent would later light it up for San Francisco, including what would be an MVP season in 2000, I always thought of what he would still look like in a Jays uniform and how well he would fit in…and perhaps not fight with anyone in the dugout.
Kent is entering his third year on the ballot, where he dipped a bit last year to finish at 14%. I think he will see an increase as he was probably on the list of a few writers at the 11-14 spot, and with only Griffey (maybe Hoffman) replacing Biggio, Johnson, Martinez and Smoltz, the still thick log jam has lost a bit of lumber.
Still, if Kent can at the very least raise his total to 25%, with the reduced ballot tenure, I don’t think he has a shot to make it. Can he get an 11% increase?
Spheniscus: 11% seems like a lot. If only because there are plenty of people who aren’t voting for 10 names every year. I remember thinking as his career wound down… damn, Kent is a borderline Hall of Famer. And the Hall of Fame predictors seem to hold that to be true.
On Hall of Fame Monitor where a 100 score is a likely Hall of Famer, he is a 122. On Hall of Fame Standards where 50 is a likely Hall of Famer, he is a 51. For Gray Ink, though where an average Hall of Famer is a 144 score, he is only a 71. And JAWS holds him to be the 18th Greatest Second Baseman of All Time. All of whom, except #7 Bobby Grich (really?), #11 Lou Whitaker, #12 Chase Utley (still playing), #16 Robinson Cano (still playing, but really?), and #17 Willie Randolph are in the Hall.
So his argument is pretty good. Better than his excuse of getting injured washing out the bed of his truck when he actually crashed his motorcycle trying to pull wheelies anyway.
Given a rational list, meaning one where they had figured out what was going on with the whole steroid era, he would probably find his way into the Hall. But who knows? I mean you and I both think that no one got screwed during this process more than Lou Whitaker who never even made a second ballot. So it’s entirely possible I’m wrong. Kent will be on the ballot next year. But I don’t think he’ll get another 11%.
Chairman: You are right (again) that we both feel the same about Whitaker being screwed and about Kent not getting another 11 points. Quick question…before I move on…so you are not saying Grich belonged in the upper echelon? We have another discussion if that is the case!
Let me throw this at you. I think that the voters know they made a mistake with Whitaker, or at the very least erred that he should have stayed on the ballot a little longer. I am putting my conspiracy hat on and saying are they happy that he made a few more ballots so that there is no mistake?
You know what Spheniscus? After writing that, I know I am going off the deep end with that theory.
Let me throw something else at you. Do you think his “good ole boy” image that we saw in Survivor plays against him?
Spheniscus: I am not arguing that Bobby Grich was a great player, but the 7th greatest 2B of all time? That is better than Jackie Robinson. I have a hard time believing that Grich was a better player than Jackie Robinson.
As for being on Survivor and his image, it really is hard to think of a personality in sports less suited to game based on social skills than the prickly, at best, Kent. The good ole boy image was his version of Commander Data getting an emotions chip implant. He put it on because he didn’t know how else to interact with the world. Survivor’s choice of Scot Pollard for this year’s season is a much better decision.
All this said, Kent directly benefits from Biggio being gone from the ballot. I mean the second best second baseman on this list is Luis Castillo. And while we are doing 24 of these things, he is not one of them. How much of a jump do you think he gets?
Chairman: To Grich’s defense on being over Jackie Robinson, the trailblazer didn’t enter the Majors until he was 28, and had there been no color barrier, surely would be higher.
In regards to Survivor, I can give you one personality less suited for the show, and he did do it…John Rocker. I don’t know if you watched it, but if you haven’t it was exactly the disaster you thought it was!
My dream Sports Survivor sixteen you (didn’t) ask?
Sean Avery
Charles Barkley
Shawn Bradley
John Daly
Rickey Henderson
Caitlyn (Bruce) Jenner
Carl Lewis
Diego Maradonna
Steve Nash
Terrell Owens
Rafael Palmeiro
Bas Rutten
Pete Rose
Latrell Sprewell
Mike Tyson
Kurt Warner
That is ratings gold!
Oh…I don’t vote for Kent, though he is close on my ballot. I think he creeps up, but only to 17%.
Sphensicus: Very interesting group, although that is more a list for a Survivor Series than Survivor. Plus having Sean Avery on any show that isn’t Celebrity Deathmatch is not a show I am interested in. Seriously, fuck that guy. Although hopefully Tyson would take care of him. Quickly.
Anyway, Kent is someone I would vote for. He has my 11th spot. He originally had 10th, but with researching this someone who is upcoming took that spot from him. But I think that you are right on with the percentage. 17% is probably the right number for him.
2016 HOF Debate: Jason Kendall
Jan 02, 2016
Written by
Committee Chairman
Last year, we did our first ever debate on Notinhalloffame.com where we tackled the Hall of Fame merit of twenty-four men who are on the Hall of Fame ballot, in what was in our opinion the most loaded ballot in our lifetime.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
Chairman: I have always had a soft spot for spray hitters. Pete Rose was my first favorite player, and he was replaced with Tony Gwynn, who is still to this day my all-time favorite. Next to my Guy LaFleur rookie card, my rookie Gwynn card holds a special place in my collection.
Maybe that is why I really liked Jason Kendall, especially when he was with the Pittsburgh Pirates. With his .306 Batting Average and .387 On Base Percentage (specifically in Pittsburgh), it combined my original respect for Batting Average with the new vogue stat of OBP. It also didn’t hurt that he was a Catcher, which I now regard as the second most important position in Baseball (behind Pitcher of course).
Kendall was good (maybe Hall of Very Good caliber) but I know he won’t receive much support. Damn though, if I had a ballot it would be hard for me not to throw him a bone and cast a vote just out of respect.
Spheniscus: Well, here we have our first major disagreement. I think catcher is actually THE most important position in baseball. The Red Sox were pretty terrible this season. But they were doomed as of April 2nd, 2015 when defensive wizard Christian Vazquez underwent Tommy John surgery. Replacing him with Blake Swihart, a much better offensive player but a pretty mediocre defensive catcher, had a huge effect on pitchers who collectively had their worst years of their careers all at once. Also we had the corpse formally known as Hanley Ramirez on our team. That also did not help.
Anyway, back to the task at hand. Jason Kendall. Kendall has a shot. There are 13 catchers who have been elected to the Hall. A 14th should be elected this year in Piazza. According to JAWS, Kendall is the 18th best catcher in baseball history. Three others in front of him are not yet eligible for the Hall: Ivan Rodriguez (3), Joe Mauer (9), and Jorge Posada (16). Four others, Ted Simmons (10), Thurman Munson (12), Gene Tenace (13), and Bill Freehan (14) are off the ballot without being elected [INSERT TED SIMMONS SHOULD BE IN THE HALL ALREADY RANT HERE].
So he is clearly in the conversation. Or rather, he should be. But here’s the thing that is going to keep him out of the Hall. He made three All Star teams in 15 seasons. So regardless of his stats, he doesn’t FEEL like a Hall of Famer to people. Particularly since he spent so much time on terrible Pirates teams. If he couldn’t beat out Mike Williams or Jack Wilson to be the Pirates representative, how is he going to get into the Hall?
Without going too deeply into his stats (for once in these conversations) I think that he will get 5% or close to it. But I don’t think he is ever getting through the voting process and into Cooperstown.
Chairman: I always thought of Ramirez more as a pylon than a corpse.
JAWS does put him there in the conversation, and will probably get him a few articles on this for years to come…long after he is kicked off of the ballot this year.
Three All Star Games. That shouldn’t matter, but we know it will won’t it? I hate the fact that there are people who point to that as some sort of accomplishment when it is only a reflection of a popularity contest and/or what you did in a half season. Hell, we have had MVPs of certain years who didn’t make an All Star team, though nobody seems to remember that.
Do you remember when Sandy Alomar was constantly chosen as the American League starting Catcher? He went to the All-Star Game six times and only played in 100 Games four times. Alomar finishes 127th in JAWS by the way, and you know what? He finished with 2.8% of the ballot.
Here is my prediction. Jason Kendall does not beat that number…and that will be a travesty.
Spheniscus: Incidentally, Hanley wasn’t always a pylon. When he first came up with the Red Sox (before they sent him to Florida in the Josh Beckett/Mike Lowell trade), he was touted as the Slam Dunk Champion of the Dominican Republic. Although any evidence of that does not exist on the Google. So it probably isn’t true. Much like Dice-K’s gyroball.
Anyway, Kendall should do better than Alomar. He was a waaaay better player than Alomar. But there is a possibility that he would end up with less than 2.8%. But I am sticking by my closer to 5% prediction. I understand that is like ten votes, but it is significant. He will just never be a Hall of Famer via the writers. A future veteran’s committee will have to be the ones to take care of this.
Chairman: Ah…the gyroball. I am going to severe date myself, but I wonder if scouts thought it looked like when Radar O’Reilly (Gary Burghoff) was impressing Tommy Lasorda on a Fantasy Island episode where the ball did circles complete with Looney Tunes sound affects.
Crap, I just lost everybody under 40.
Kendall should do better than Alomar…but he won’t.
I already predicted he won’t beat Alomar’s 2.8%. I will be more specific. He won’t even make half of that. He wouldn’t get my fictional vote either, but at least I gave it a lot of thought. Sandy was never going to get that.
Spheniscus: He is not one of my 15 votes either. Your 1.4% is 8 votes. I still say it is higher just because of the people making a point of not voting for steroid users. 5% is essentially 27 votes. That seems a bit high. Let’s say 20 votes or 3.6%.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
Chairman: I have always had a soft spot for spray hitters. Pete Rose was my first favorite player, and he was replaced with Tony Gwynn, who is still to this day my all-time favorite. Next to my Guy LaFleur rookie card, my rookie Gwynn card holds a special place in my collection.
Maybe that is why I really liked Jason Kendall, especially when he was with the Pittsburgh Pirates. With his .306 Batting Average and .387 On Base Percentage (specifically in Pittsburgh), it combined my original respect for Batting Average with the new vogue stat of OBP. It also didn’t hurt that he was a Catcher, which I now regard as the second most important position in Baseball (behind Pitcher of course).
Kendall was good (maybe Hall of Very Good caliber) but I know he won’t receive much support. Damn though, if I had a ballot it would be hard for me not to throw him a bone and cast a vote just out of respect.
Spheniscus: Well, here we have our first major disagreement. I think catcher is actually THE most important position in baseball. The Red Sox were pretty terrible this season. But they were doomed as of April 2nd, 2015 when defensive wizard Christian Vazquez underwent Tommy John surgery. Replacing him with Blake Swihart, a much better offensive player but a pretty mediocre defensive catcher, had a huge effect on pitchers who collectively had their worst years of their careers all at once. Also we had the corpse formally known as Hanley Ramirez on our team. That also did not help.
Anyway, back to the task at hand. Jason Kendall. Kendall has a shot. There are 13 catchers who have been elected to the Hall. A 14th should be elected this year in Piazza. According to JAWS, Kendall is the 18th best catcher in baseball history. Three others in front of him are not yet eligible for the Hall: Ivan Rodriguez (3), Joe Mauer (9), and Jorge Posada (16). Four others, Ted Simmons (10), Thurman Munson (12), Gene Tenace (13), and Bill Freehan (14) are off the ballot without being elected [INSERT TED SIMMONS SHOULD BE IN THE HALL ALREADY RANT HERE].
So he is clearly in the conversation. Or rather, he should be. But here’s the thing that is going to keep him out of the Hall. He made three All Star teams in 15 seasons. So regardless of his stats, he doesn’t FEEL like a Hall of Famer to people. Particularly since he spent so much time on terrible Pirates teams. If he couldn’t beat out Mike Williams or Jack Wilson to be the Pirates representative, how is he going to get into the Hall?
Without going too deeply into his stats (for once in these conversations) I think that he will get 5% or close to it. But I don’t think he is ever getting through the voting process and into Cooperstown.
Chairman: I always thought of Ramirez more as a pylon than a corpse.
JAWS does put him there in the conversation, and will probably get him a few articles on this for years to come…long after he is kicked off of the ballot this year.
Three All Star Games. That shouldn’t matter, but we know it will won’t it? I hate the fact that there are people who point to that as some sort of accomplishment when it is only a reflection of a popularity contest and/or what you did in a half season. Hell, we have had MVPs of certain years who didn’t make an All Star team, though nobody seems to remember that.
Do you remember when Sandy Alomar was constantly chosen as the American League starting Catcher? He went to the All-Star Game six times and only played in 100 Games four times. Alomar finishes 127th in JAWS by the way, and you know what? He finished with 2.8% of the ballot.
Here is my prediction. Jason Kendall does not beat that number…and that will be a travesty.
Spheniscus: Incidentally, Hanley wasn’t always a pylon. When he first came up with the Red Sox (before they sent him to Florida in the Josh Beckett/Mike Lowell trade), he was touted as the Slam Dunk Champion of the Dominican Republic. Although any evidence of that does not exist on the Google. So it probably isn’t true. Much like Dice-K’s gyroball.
Anyway, Kendall should do better than Alomar. He was a waaaay better player than Alomar. But there is a possibility that he would end up with less than 2.8%. But I am sticking by my closer to 5% prediction. I understand that is like ten votes, but it is significant. He will just never be a Hall of Famer via the writers. A future veteran’s committee will have to be the ones to take care of this.
Chairman: Ah…the gyroball. I am going to severe date myself, but I wonder if scouts thought it looked like when Radar O’Reilly (Gary Burghoff) was impressing Tommy Lasorda on a Fantasy Island episode where the ball did circles complete with Looney Tunes sound affects.
Crap, I just lost everybody under 40.
Kendall should do better than Alomar…but he won’t.
I already predicted he won’t beat Alomar’s 2.8%. I will be more specific. He won’t even make half of that. He wouldn’t get my fictional vote either, but at least I gave it a lot of thought. Sandy was never going to get that.
Spheniscus: He is not one of my 15 votes either. Your 1.4% is 8 votes. I still say it is higher just because of the people making a point of not voting for steroid users. 5% is essentially 27 votes. That seems a bit high. Let’s say 20 votes or 3.6%.
2016 HOF Debate: Ken Griffey Jr.
Jan 02, 2016
Written by
Committee Chairman
Last year, we did our first ever debate on Notinhalloffame.com where we tackled the Hall of Fame merit of twenty-four men who are on the Hall of Fame ballot, in what was in our opinion the most loaded ballot in our lifetime.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
Chairman: This should be a no-brainer, with stress on the word “should”. I have yet to read a publication, a blog, or a smoke signal that says that Ken Griffey Jr. is not a Hall of Famer. Yet, there is going to be a handful of voters who won’t check his name off and we know why don’t we?
It will be a few of those self-righteous pricks who will say “well, I don’t know who used PEDs or not from that era” and point to the enlarged head that he had when he played for Mr. Burns softball team as evidence that he used HGH.
It was Brain and Nerve tonic, goddamn it, and it was not on the banned substance list!
Bad Springfield jokes aside, Griffey is this year’s lock, and should be. My only question is what the second digit is on the vote, because the first one is a nine!
Spheniscus: That’s the thing though, there is no way to know who did and didn’t use at that time. Mike Piazza by practically any measure is the greatest hitting catcher of all time. He should have been a first ballot Hall of Famer. He’s now on his 4th time through? Why? Because he was a big guy and played in the steroid era and is therefore part of the whisper campaign.
Why don’t we think Griffey used? Because he was a phenom? Well, so was his teammate Alex Rodriguez, who was a user. Because he was skinny? Have you seen Ryan Franklin? He’d need to wear a dive belt to hit 150 pounds. He was a user. Because he’s a nice guy? Mike Cameron may be the nicest person ever in baseball. He was a user.
To be fair, I don’t believe that Griffey used. And obviously what my father would have called the Ivory Soap percentage of the voters don’t either. He will most likely end up with 95% plus of the vote. But if people take the stand that no one from the era gets in because they don’t know who used, the stand is stupid but it is at least consistent. I don’t hold it against them. Those guys aren’t the self-righteous pricks in my book. They are dumbasses, but not pricks.
Those who don’t vote for him because it is the first time he is eligible and not even Babe Ruth got 100% of the vote are the self-righteous pricks. Those people can just turn in their ballot privileges.
Although I do wonder if there are a percentage that won’t vote for Griffey knowing that he will skate in and that an extra vote for someone further down the ballot would help someone they think is a worthy candidate. If you truly believe that Edgar Martinez is a Hall of Famer, but he is 11th on your list, why not leave Griffey blank and vote for Martinez? That may also depress Griffey’s vote percentage while the people who are doing it are actually on the side of the angels.
Chairman: Griffey will go down in a long list of men who should have received 100 percent of the ballot because of the self-righteous pricks/dumbasses we both spoke of. Personally, I prefer the term “sanctimonious douchebag”, but maybe that is because how I have been viewing Hawkeye in M*A*S*H reruns last night in a drunken bender watching that show on a marathon.
While you are right that we don’t know whether Griffey Jr. juiced or not, and I am with you in that he probably didn’t, based mostly on his post 30 numbers as opposed to prior to. It was a natural decline that made sense, not some Dorian Gray/Benjamin Button statistical increase like some had.
Slight tangent here; looking back it is impossible to believe that the Mariners with Griffey, Martinez, A-Rod and Randy Johnson never made the World Series. Maybe even more surprising is that Jay Buhner was the most popular of all of them for a time. If he had hair, half the people outside of Seattle would not know his name, and he wouldn’t have been mentioned in a Seinfeld episode.
Actually that was a really big tangent.
Spheniscus: Funny, I presume that Sanctimonious Douchebag is the name of the band that always opens for Train on every one of their tours.
And the real reason that people remember Buhner is that it is the last good trade the Mariners ever made. Not that they did historically badly in their trades of Griffey or Johnson, but the Mariners have built a reputation as the team you talk to when you want to rebuild your franchise. The 2004 and 2007 World Series never happen if the Mariners don’t exchange Derek Lowe and Jason Varitek for Heathcliff Slocumb. Although to be fair they definitely got the better of us in 1996 when we traded an over-the-hill 34-year-old Jamie Moyer for the seven year younger Right Fielder of the future Darren Bragg. A man who would retire a FULL EIGHT YEARS BEFORE MOYER!
Anyway, where were we? Oh yes, Griffey. He’s getting in. Easily.
Chairman: Now you got me thinking…
“Sanctimonious Douchebag” would be a great name for either Coldplay or Nickelback. The fact that Coldplay is doing the Halftime show at this year’s Super Bowl has made me consider starting a crowdfund to get the Wayans Brothers to bring back their halftime counter on Fox in a “In Living Color” comeback.
Wait, Moyer retired? Doesn’t he seem like somebody who would be signed by the St. Paul Saints right now?
Anyways, Griffey has my pretend vote, and the real one of most of the voters. Since, there has never been (and never will be because there are too many writers who enjoy the fact that they have this power) a candidate entering at 100%, I will peg Junior’s tally at 97.3%.
Although that 2.7% need to have their voting privileges revoked immediately as well as their access to any computer so that they can continue their writing career.
Spheniscus: So with 550 voters, 97.3 means 15 people wouldn’t vote for Griffey. That actually seems too low to me. I’m going to presume there are 25 or 30 people who don’t for one reason or another. 25 means 95.5%. I’ll stick there.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
Chairman: This should be a no-brainer, with stress on the word “should”. I have yet to read a publication, a blog, or a smoke signal that says that Ken Griffey Jr. is not a Hall of Famer. Yet, there is going to be a handful of voters who won’t check his name off and we know why don’t we?
It will be a few of those self-righteous pricks who will say “well, I don’t know who used PEDs or not from that era” and point to the enlarged head that he had when he played for Mr. Burns softball team as evidence that he used HGH.
It was Brain and Nerve tonic, goddamn it, and it was not on the banned substance list!
Bad Springfield jokes aside, Griffey is this year’s lock, and should be. My only question is what the second digit is on the vote, because the first one is a nine!
Spheniscus: That’s the thing though, there is no way to know who did and didn’t use at that time. Mike Piazza by practically any measure is the greatest hitting catcher of all time. He should have been a first ballot Hall of Famer. He’s now on his 4th time through? Why? Because he was a big guy and played in the steroid era and is therefore part of the whisper campaign.
Why don’t we think Griffey used? Because he was a phenom? Well, so was his teammate Alex Rodriguez, who was a user. Because he was skinny? Have you seen Ryan Franklin? He’d need to wear a dive belt to hit 150 pounds. He was a user. Because he’s a nice guy? Mike Cameron may be the nicest person ever in baseball. He was a user.
To be fair, I don’t believe that Griffey used. And obviously what my father would have called the Ivory Soap percentage of the voters don’t either. He will most likely end up with 95% plus of the vote. But if people take the stand that no one from the era gets in because they don’t know who used, the stand is stupid but it is at least consistent. I don’t hold it against them. Those guys aren’t the self-righteous pricks in my book. They are dumbasses, but not pricks.
Those who don’t vote for him because it is the first time he is eligible and not even Babe Ruth got 100% of the vote are the self-righteous pricks. Those people can just turn in their ballot privileges.
Although I do wonder if there are a percentage that won’t vote for Griffey knowing that he will skate in and that an extra vote for someone further down the ballot would help someone they think is a worthy candidate. If you truly believe that Edgar Martinez is a Hall of Famer, but he is 11th on your list, why not leave Griffey blank and vote for Martinez? That may also depress Griffey’s vote percentage while the people who are doing it are actually on the side of the angels.
Chairman: Griffey will go down in a long list of men who should have received 100 percent of the ballot because of the self-righteous pricks/dumbasses we both spoke of. Personally, I prefer the term “sanctimonious douchebag”, but maybe that is because how I have been viewing Hawkeye in M*A*S*H reruns last night in a drunken bender watching that show on a marathon.
While you are right that we don’t know whether Griffey Jr. juiced or not, and I am with you in that he probably didn’t, based mostly on his post 30 numbers as opposed to prior to. It was a natural decline that made sense, not some Dorian Gray/Benjamin Button statistical increase like some had.
Slight tangent here; looking back it is impossible to believe that the Mariners with Griffey, Martinez, A-Rod and Randy Johnson never made the World Series. Maybe even more surprising is that Jay Buhner was the most popular of all of them for a time. If he had hair, half the people outside of Seattle would not know his name, and he wouldn’t have been mentioned in a Seinfeld episode.
Actually that was a really big tangent.
Spheniscus: Funny, I presume that Sanctimonious Douchebag is the name of the band that always opens for Train on every one of their tours.
And the real reason that people remember Buhner is that it is the last good trade the Mariners ever made. Not that they did historically badly in their trades of Griffey or Johnson, but the Mariners have built a reputation as the team you talk to when you want to rebuild your franchise. The 2004 and 2007 World Series never happen if the Mariners don’t exchange Derek Lowe and Jason Varitek for Heathcliff Slocumb. Although to be fair they definitely got the better of us in 1996 when we traded an over-the-hill 34-year-old Jamie Moyer for the seven year younger Right Fielder of the future Darren Bragg. A man who would retire a FULL EIGHT YEARS BEFORE MOYER!
Anyway, where were we? Oh yes, Griffey. He’s getting in. Easily.
Chairman: Now you got me thinking…
“Sanctimonious Douchebag” would be a great name for either Coldplay or Nickelback. The fact that Coldplay is doing the Halftime show at this year’s Super Bowl has made me consider starting a crowdfund to get the Wayans Brothers to bring back their halftime counter on Fox in a “In Living Color” comeback.
Wait, Moyer retired? Doesn’t he seem like somebody who would be signed by the St. Paul Saints right now?
Anyways, Griffey has my pretend vote, and the real one of most of the voters. Since, there has never been (and never will be because there are too many writers who enjoy the fact that they have this power) a candidate entering at 100%, I will peg Junior’s tally at 97.3%.
Although that 2.7% need to have their voting privileges revoked immediately as well as their access to any computer so that they can continue their writing career.
Spheniscus: So with 550 voters, 97.3 means 15 people wouldn’t vote for Griffey. That actually seems too low to me. I’m going to presume there are 25 or 30 people who don’t for one reason or another. 25 means 95.5%. I’ll stick there.
2016 HOF Debate: Barry Bonds
Jan 01, 2016
Written by
Committee Chairman
Last year, we did our first ever debate on Notinhalloffame.com where we tackled the Hall of Fame merit of twenty-four men who are on the Hall of Fame ballot, in what was in our opinion the most loaded ballot in our lifetime.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
2016 HOF Debate: Roger Clemens
Jan 01, 2016
Written by
Committee Chairman
Last year, we did our first ever debate on Notinhalloffame.com where we tackled the Hall of Fame merit of twenty-four men who are on the Hall of Fame ballot, in what was in our opinion the most loaded ballot in our lifetime.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
2016 HOF Debate: Troy Glaus
Jan 01, 2016
Written by
Committee Chairman
Last year, we did our first ever debate on Notinhalloffame.com where we tackled the Hall of Fame merit of twenty-four men who are on the Hall of Fame ballot, in what was in our opinion the most loaded ballot in our lifetime.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
Chairman: I remembered what you said about Garret Anderson, and I have a similar memory of Troy Glaus, whether he was playing for the Blue Jays or not. He is just one of those players, who whenever I saw him play live or on television always seemed to be on. He hit 320 Home Runs over his career and it feels like I have seen half of them. He is like my retro Anti-R.A. Dickey. Every time I am in a position where I can watch the Jays play, it is usually the knuckleballer and usually when he shits the bed.
But I digress (again).
That might be how I remember Glaus, and I am sure there are a lot of people in Southern California who think of Glaus and his 2002 World Series MVP (is that a lesser version of how I view Joe Carter?) but I wonder how many people only remembering Glaus for his strikeouts. He did that…a lot. He is one of the few who has more whiffs than hits and is there my counterpart who every time he flipped through the channels saw him swing and miss at strike three?
Here is my early prediction. Glaus is not just a one and done. He will receive exactly one vote on the ballot. There is someone on that Angels beat that will give him that for the World Series he helped them win.
Spheniscus: So Glaus is going to be the next Jim Deshaies, huh? We should probably register www.puttginthehall.com then. To be fair, he was a significantly better player than Deshaies and probably deserves more than one vote. But on a ballot with somewhere around 13 legitimate Hall of Famers (depending on how you feel about steroids) and only 10 players that each writer can vote for, I don’t think he even gets that.
He never finished higher than 30th in MVP voting, which happened once. He made four All Star Teams, won two Silver Sluggers and HAD MORE STRIKE OUTS THAN HITS FOR HIS CAREER (1377 vs. 1375). And his comparables include Danny Tartabull, Jeromy Burnitz, and Dean Palmer. Three guys who had respectable careers but are in nobody’s Hall. He’s not a Hall of Famer. He is a really good player who had a 13 year career and completely fell off a cliff when he hit the wrong side of 30. There is no shame in that. I also don’t think there will be any votes though.
Chairman: I can’t even run this site! Glaus could very well receive a goose egg, perhaps significant considering how many of his at bats amounted to nothing. Would that make him one of the best players to ever get skunked? He wouldn’t be the best as that goes to Jim Wynn, but that might be an article for another time.
I think it is safe to say that when we are talking more about what he didn’t do as opposed to what he did do, we don’t have much of a candidate do we?
Spheniscus: Agreed. Glaus was a very good player for a very good time. When you were playing his team and the game was on the line, you held your breath while he was at the plate. I just don’t think he’s holding his breath in early January. Getting two votes would be a coup.
Chairman: This is easy. I vote no, and since I need to do an official prediction, I think he will get a charity vote, maybe from somebody in Southern California.
I don’t think Glaus will hang by his phone that day either waiting for that call. The real question is will he be golfing or fishing that day?
Spheniscus: Is there a way to do both? Because that is the most exciting thing that will be happening to him that day. Clearly he doesn’t get my vote. And I suspect he’ll strike out one more time. No votes for Mr. Glaus.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
Chairman: I remembered what you said about Garret Anderson, and I have a similar memory of Troy Glaus, whether he was playing for the Blue Jays or not. He is just one of those players, who whenever I saw him play live or on television always seemed to be on. He hit 320 Home Runs over his career and it feels like I have seen half of them. He is like my retro Anti-R.A. Dickey. Every time I am in a position where I can watch the Jays play, it is usually the knuckleballer and usually when he shits the bed.
But I digress (again).
That might be how I remember Glaus, and I am sure there are a lot of people in Southern California who think of Glaus and his 2002 World Series MVP (is that a lesser version of how I view Joe Carter?) but I wonder how many people only remembering Glaus for his strikeouts. He did that…a lot. He is one of the few who has more whiffs than hits and is there my counterpart who every time he flipped through the channels saw him swing and miss at strike three?
Here is my early prediction. Glaus is not just a one and done. He will receive exactly one vote on the ballot. There is someone on that Angels beat that will give him that for the World Series he helped them win.
Spheniscus: So Glaus is going to be the next Jim Deshaies, huh? We should probably register www.puttginthehall.com then. To be fair, he was a significantly better player than Deshaies and probably deserves more than one vote. But on a ballot with somewhere around 13 legitimate Hall of Famers (depending on how you feel about steroids) and only 10 players that each writer can vote for, I don’t think he even gets that.
He never finished higher than 30th in MVP voting, which happened once. He made four All Star Teams, won two Silver Sluggers and HAD MORE STRIKE OUTS THAN HITS FOR HIS CAREER (1377 vs. 1375). And his comparables include Danny Tartabull, Jeromy Burnitz, and Dean Palmer. Three guys who had respectable careers but are in nobody’s Hall. He’s not a Hall of Famer. He is a really good player who had a 13 year career and completely fell off a cliff when he hit the wrong side of 30. There is no shame in that. I also don’t think there will be any votes though.
Chairman: I can’t even run this site! Glaus could very well receive a goose egg, perhaps significant considering how many of his at bats amounted to nothing. Would that make him one of the best players to ever get skunked? He wouldn’t be the best as that goes to Jim Wynn, but that might be an article for another time.
I think it is safe to say that when we are talking more about what he didn’t do as opposed to what he did do, we don’t have much of a candidate do we?
Spheniscus: Agreed. Glaus was a very good player for a very good time. When you were playing his team and the game was on the line, you held your breath while he was at the plate. I just don’t think he’s holding his breath in early January. Getting two votes would be a coup.
Chairman: This is easy. I vote no, and since I need to do an official prediction, I think he will get a charity vote, maybe from somebody in Southern California.
I don’t think Glaus will hang by his phone that day either waiting for that call. The real question is will he be golfing or fishing that day?
Spheniscus: Is there a way to do both? Because that is the most exciting thing that will be happening to him that day. Clearly he doesn’t get my vote. And I suspect he’ll strike out one more time. No votes for Mr. Glaus.
2016 HOF Debate: Nomar Garicaparra
Jan 01, 2016
Written by
Committee Chairman
Last year, we did our first ever debate on Notinhalloffame.com where we tackled the Hall of Fame merit of twenty-four men who are on the Hall of Fame ballot, in what was in our opinion the most loaded ballot in our lifetime.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
Chairman: Nomah! Last year I incorrectly predicted Nomar Garciaparra as a one and done candidate, though I wasn’t really off by much. The shortstop squeaked by with 5.5% of the vote and when that happened I was trying to figure out why as his accumulative metrics don’t put him there.
I forgot one thing. Just how much of a rock star Mr. Mia Hamm was.
This was the guy whose jersey Jimmy Fallon wore in those Saturday Night Live skits. This was the guy who women swooned for and did so without pissing off their men. This is the guy who lost the “r” at the end of his last name.
(Side Note): As much as I am a fan of his late night show, I will go down on record for saying that Fallon was the worst SNL performer ever. Thank you, Peter Griffin for decking him for his constant mugging for the camera.
Spheniscus, you are a member of the Fenway Faithful! Was Nomarmania running wild or was this just a perception of someone from the outside looking in?
Spheniscus: As a member of the Red Sox Nation I have to say I had a problem with Fallon for a very long time based on his quotes in promoting “Fever Pitch” in which he said he was a Mets, Yankees and Red Sox fan. Such a person cannot exist. Not even the biggest front-running poser fan could make a coherent argument that makes that fandom make sense.
But back to Nomahhhh. I love Nomar. Everyone I know loves Nomar. Without exaggerating, I have five friends who have named pets Nomar (three dogs, one cat, and a parrot). Up until 2000, he was on a complete Hall of Fame trajectory. There was the Jeter, A-Rod, Nomar argument and we smugly superior Red Sox fans would have taken Nomar over the other two (although we wanted Jeter’s rings).
In 1999 Orioles reliever Al Reyes hit Nomar in the wrist and it never really healed. He had surgery in the first part of 2001 to repair it, but was really never the same player after that. In 2002, John Henry bought the Red Sox and whatever the reason the relationship with the new ownership and Nomar was never the same. By 2004, he was a moody, unhappy former superstar who was incredibly unhappy with being in Boston.
The Sox traded him for Orlando Cabrera, who really wasn’t any better than Nomar had been when he played. But the notoriously prickly Cabrera was still a better fit in the clubhouse. The Sox immediately went 22-3, became the first team to come back from a 3-0 deficit and against the hated Yankees no less, and swept their way to their first World Series title in 86 years.
When Nomar was traded we were more sad than angry as if a couple that you cared about went through a divorce that was the best thing for them. And when the Sox won their rings we all hoped that Nomar would come back to collect his.
Honestly, I was pleasantly surprised that he made it past the first year on the ballot. I don’t hold out much hope for his long term prospects, however.
Chairman: You know for the curator of the Fictitious Athlete Hall of Fame, you would think I would remember the press junkets for Fever Pitch! (maybe because at that time I had yet to forgive Fallon for his SNL mugging)
Either way, yes, I don’t have to be in Massachusetts to know that no self-respecting BoSox fan is one of the Mets or the Yankees. Does that even exist there? It can’t be!
Still, here we are and Nomahhhhh, has made another year. I have to tell you, what you have told me has made me understand his star power a little more; yet at the same time, they couldn’t win with him. I am still trying to figure out his star power.
With Boston winning without him, is he still revered as a star there?
Another question… as a Red Sox fan, what is he missing for HOF consideration?
Spheniscus: Yes, Nomar is still revered here. He was too beloved while he was here and his falling out had everything to do with management and nothing with the fans. He still says how much he loved Boston. The fact we won the World Series immediately after he was traded also helps assuage any wounds that existed. So yes, we still love Nomahhhhhhhhhh!
As for what he is missing? A time machine to stop that pitch from hitting him in the wrist. Other than that? Longevity. More specifically a longer sustained peak. Because his first six years (not counting his injury shortened 2001 season) are definitely Hall of Fame worthy. He was between 6th and 9th in WAR each of those seasons. The last six were decidedly not so. Outside of 2006, his last All Star appearance, he was merely a very good, often injured player. And the two players to whom he was originally compared, Alex Rodriguez and Derek Jeter, have completely outstripped him in every category.
If there is a Half Hall of Fame somewhere (another idea for the site?) he would be a first ballot inductee. Along with Don Mattingly, Dale Murphy, and Fernando Valenzuela.
Chairman: That sounds like a good idea. A half career All-Stars! I like that a lot!
At the end of the day, if I had a ballot he isn’t getting my vote. The Hall of Fame is supposed to be about what you did, not what could have been. It’s a harsh reality, but one that does separate from the very good to the elite.
He got 5.5% last year, which is where I will peg him this year. I predict he will hang on just a bit longer so that we can mispronounce his name next year.
Spheniscus: It’s okay. No one has ever really pronounced his name correctly. The reason we call him Nomahhh in Boston is can you imagine us trying to pronounce his last name with our accent? Gahhciarparhhaar (my approximation, not actually a word in the Welsh language. Well, I don’t think so anyway).
Nomar is not a Hall of Famer. He’ll get 6% this year. With 4 guys coming off last year and only two first ballot potentials joining this year, he’ll pick up a couple of votes. I give him two more years before dropping off.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
Chairman: Nomah! Last year I incorrectly predicted Nomar Garciaparra as a one and done candidate, though I wasn’t really off by much. The shortstop squeaked by with 5.5% of the vote and when that happened I was trying to figure out why as his accumulative metrics don’t put him there.
I forgot one thing. Just how much of a rock star Mr. Mia Hamm was.
This was the guy whose jersey Jimmy Fallon wore in those Saturday Night Live skits. This was the guy who women swooned for and did so without pissing off their men. This is the guy who lost the “r” at the end of his last name.
(Side Note): As much as I am a fan of his late night show, I will go down on record for saying that Fallon was the worst SNL performer ever. Thank you, Peter Griffin for decking him for his constant mugging for the camera.
Spheniscus, you are a member of the Fenway Faithful! Was Nomarmania running wild or was this just a perception of someone from the outside looking in?
Spheniscus: As a member of the Red Sox Nation I have to say I had a problem with Fallon for a very long time based on his quotes in promoting “Fever Pitch” in which he said he was a Mets, Yankees and Red Sox fan. Such a person cannot exist. Not even the biggest front-running poser fan could make a coherent argument that makes that fandom make sense.
But back to Nomahhhh. I love Nomar. Everyone I know loves Nomar. Without exaggerating, I have five friends who have named pets Nomar (three dogs, one cat, and a parrot). Up until 2000, he was on a complete Hall of Fame trajectory. There was the Jeter, A-Rod, Nomar argument and we smugly superior Red Sox fans would have taken Nomar over the other two (although we wanted Jeter’s rings).
In 1999 Orioles reliever Al Reyes hit Nomar in the wrist and it never really healed. He had surgery in the first part of 2001 to repair it, but was really never the same player after that. In 2002, John Henry bought the Red Sox and whatever the reason the relationship with the new ownership and Nomar was never the same. By 2004, he was a moody, unhappy former superstar who was incredibly unhappy with being in Boston.
The Sox traded him for Orlando Cabrera, who really wasn’t any better than Nomar had been when he played. But the notoriously prickly Cabrera was still a better fit in the clubhouse. The Sox immediately went 22-3, became the first team to come back from a 3-0 deficit and against the hated Yankees no less, and swept their way to their first World Series title in 86 years.
When Nomar was traded we were more sad than angry as if a couple that you cared about went through a divorce that was the best thing for them. And when the Sox won their rings we all hoped that Nomar would come back to collect his.
Honestly, I was pleasantly surprised that he made it past the first year on the ballot. I don’t hold out much hope for his long term prospects, however.
Chairman: You know for the curator of the Fictitious Athlete Hall of Fame, you would think I would remember the press junkets for Fever Pitch! (maybe because at that time I had yet to forgive Fallon for his SNL mugging)
Either way, yes, I don’t have to be in Massachusetts to know that no self-respecting BoSox fan is one of the Mets or the Yankees. Does that even exist there? It can’t be!
Still, here we are and Nomahhhhh, has made another year. I have to tell you, what you have told me has made me understand his star power a little more; yet at the same time, they couldn’t win with him. I am still trying to figure out his star power.
With Boston winning without him, is he still revered as a star there?
Another question… as a Red Sox fan, what is he missing for HOF consideration?
Spheniscus: Yes, Nomar is still revered here. He was too beloved while he was here and his falling out had everything to do with management and nothing with the fans. He still says how much he loved Boston. The fact we won the World Series immediately after he was traded also helps assuage any wounds that existed. So yes, we still love Nomahhhhhhhhhh!
As for what he is missing? A time machine to stop that pitch from hitting him in the wrist. Other than that? Longevity. More specifically a longer sustained peak. Because his first six years (not counting his injury shortened 2001 season) are definitely Hall of Fame worthy. He was between 6th and 9th in WAR each of those seasons. The last six were decidedly not so. Outside of 2006, his last All Star appearance, he was merely a very good, often injured player. And the two players to whom he was originally compared, Alex Rodriguez and Derek Jeter, have completely outstripped him in every category.
If there is a Half Hall of Fame somewhere (another idea for the site?) he would be a first ballot inductee. Along with Don Mattingly, Dale Murphy, and Fernando Valenzuela.
Chairman: That sounds like a good idea. A half career All-Stars! I like that a lot!
At the end of the day, if I had a ballot he isn’t getting my vote. The Hall of Fame is supposed to be about what you did, not what could have been. It’s a harsh reality, but one that does separate from the very good to the elite.
He got 5.5% last year, which is where I will peg him this year. I predict he will hang on just a bit longer so that we can mispronounce his name next year.
Spheniscus: It’s okay. No one has ever really pronounced his name correctly. The reason we call him Nomahhh in Boston is can you imagine us trying to pronounce his last name with our accent? Gahhciarparhhaar (my approximation, not actually a word in the Welsh language. Well, I don’t think so anyway).
Nomar is not a Hall of Famer. He’ll get 6% this year. With 4 guys coming off last year and only two first ballot potentials joining this year, he’ll pick up a couple of votes. I give him two more years before dropping off.