More Pete Rose news with the BHOF
The Baseball Hall of Fame, which we want to note acts “independently” of Major League Baseball has announced that Pete Rose is still banned from the Hall.
Here is what they stated:
"After extensive discussion, a vote was taken in which the Board ratified the resolution that was passed on February 4, 1991, known today as Rule 3(E) in the BBWAA's election rules. As such, anyone deemed permanently ineligible by Major League Baseball, including Pete Rose, may not be considered for election to the Baseball Hall of Fame."
As it stands now Pete Rose remains ineligible but in the view of many (and us) he is Hall of Famer.
Pete Rose and the Baseball HOF news won’t end anytime soon.
We are announcing Baseball revisions for the 2018 Vote!
As such, we took into account the following when looking at our Baseball Revisions:
Ranking the now eligible former players. We already have them on our futures sections and your votes and comments have been taken into account.
The votes and opinions that all of you have given based on those who are already on the list.
Remember, we encourage you to keep giving us your opinions and comments as this does alter our rankings as we continue. Also, it is worth noting that we have expanded our 100 to 105.
So, let’s get right to the Top 10!
If you are a regular visitor here, you know that we have a 1A, 1B and 1C on our to accommodate:
1A. Pete Rose: The Hit King remains ineligible for the Hall of Fame due to gambling.
1B. “Shoeless” Joe Jackson: Jackson remains ineligible after nearly a century has passed following the Black Sox Scandal of 1919.
1C. Roger Clemens: It is either Clemens or Bonds in this spot. Rocket gets the duke only because he has a slightly higher vote tally from all of you who voted. Seriously though, can we get off the PED era already?
2. Barry Bonds: The All-Time leader in MLB Home Runs remains #2. While he does not have the vote total that others have who are ranked lower, like Clemens, this is as far as his (and Clemens) basement goes as far as Notinhalloffame.com is concerned, and yes, we know we said that we too take your votes into account! With these two, we re going to hold firm right now.
3. Chipper Jones: The career Atlanta Brave is considered by many to be a first ballot Hall of Fame inductee. Jones has the stats, both traditional and advanced, a World Series Ring and is very well liked. He is the highest rated new entry.
4. Mike Mussina: Mussina may have dropped one spot, but he is still a major snub in our eyes. The former Yankee and Oriole may have played in high profile markets but his profile is relatively low amongst those who think about Cooperstown. Apparently it is low with the Baseball Hall of Fame voters too.
5. Bill Dahlen: “Bad” Bill Dahlen also drops one spot. Dahlen is one of the few legitimate omissions from the game’s early days and was surly as he was good…and he was very good!
6. Jim Thome: Thome statistically should be a first ballot Hall of Famer, and probably will be, but for someone who smacked over 600 Home Runs with an OPS of .956, he is a player that could easily fall below the radars of voters on the first go around. He is the second highest ranked of the new entries.
7. Manny Ramirez. Manny is being Manny in Japan now, but he got a far higher vote in his first year of eligibility than many people thought he would.
8. Curt Schilling. Schilling took a tumble with the voters this year, the biggest drop of anyone who was on the ballot. It might be worth watching to see if he falls again.
9. Vladimir Guerrero. “Vlad, The Impaler” had the biggest jump in our Top 20, moving up from 14 to 9. Guerrero was very close to entering Cooperstown on his first try, and probably should get in on his second try.
10. Lou Whitaker. The sabremetric darling of the Detroit Tigers infield remains in the #10 spot.
Chipper Jones and Jim Thome are not the only new entries on this list.
Scott Rolen debuts at #18. The former infielder and seven time All Star brings a very interesting case to the Baseball Hall of Fame and we are very curious to see how his first vote goes.
Chipper Jones is not the only high profile former Atlanta Brave to make the top 50 as Andruw Jones debuts at #49.
Johan Santana debuts at #67 though we wonder how much higher he would be if he lasted just two more seasons.
Omar Vizquel is another new entry. The defensive star makes his first appearance at #76.
Johnny Damon and Jamie Moyer appear at #99 and #105 respectively.
You know what we want you to do!
If you haven’t cast your vote for these former baseball players on our list, please do so and offer your opinion!
As always, we here at Notinhalloffame.com thank you all for your support!
Frank Thomas softening his HOF stance towards the PED users
Ivan Rodriguez, Jeff Bagwell and Tim Raines were selected for Cooperstown this year, and Thomas is not overly thrilled with two of them anyway:
“We have two great players going in (this year) and they know. It's no secret. If they didn't do it they would be stomping and kicking on interviews, 'I didn't do it.'
If you didn't, you come to the forefront, 'Let's take a lie detector test," and these guys won't do it. Some of these guys were great players, but they wouldn't have been great players without drugs."
Thomas did not use Rodriguez and Bagwell by name, but it was clear that these were the two players he was speaking of.
Rodriguez, who enter the Hall on his first year of eligibility was named in Jose Canseco’s book, “Juiced” as someone who he personally injected with PEDs has been someone who many have speculated (though never proven) to be a PED user. Bagwell has also been accused by some, but again, never proven.
While Frank Thomas is “not happy” that Bagwell and Rodriguez are inducted, he now has developed an “all or nothing” attitude in regards to higher profile PED suspected users:
“Now some guys are getting passes and some guys are not. It's wrong. If you're going to punish Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa and Roger Clemens, how can you let the rest of these guys get in?
Either you let all those guys in and put them in a special wing or you clean it up and keep everybody out."
Based on hard line stance that Frank Thomas has taken in the past towards PED users in the Baseball Hall, this is practically a 180, or at least an acknowledgement of the era itself.
This coincides with many writers relaxing their stance on the PED users, especially with Bud Selig selected as a Today’s Game inductee. Those writers claim that the PED rise and subsequent ignoring of it for years happened under Bud Selig’s watch.
For what it is worth, Thomas doe support the induction of Pete Rose to the Hall and was excited with the selection of Tim Raines to Cooperstown.
Who will be the next Baseball Hall of Famer to come out in support, or against these former players? We know it won’t take long to find out!
Gaylord Perry supports Bonds, slams Rose
It has felt that for years that existing Baseball Hall of Famers have been constantly stating that PED users have no place in Cooperstown. As such, it took us by surprise when Hall of Fame Pitcher, Gaylord Perry said today that he thought Barry Bonds deserves to be inducted.
It took place in a conference call from Diamond Resorts, and while it was not exactly a glowing endorsement, it was considering that it came from a Hall of Famer over the age of 60:
“I think he’ll get in eventually. If you have a player like that, pretty soon, you put him in.’’
While this is not exactly a ringing endorsement, compared to his Hall of Fame peers it really is!
Perry may have had a somewhat lackadaisical endorsement of Barry Bonds, he had an adamant stance against Pete Rose:
“Pete did the worst thing possible, worse than steroids,…he put money on games, win or lose. He’s paying the price.”
Quite the different stance regarding Rose isn’t it?
Gaylord Perry was not the only Baseball Hall of Fame inductee who was on this conference call. John Smoltz was also on this call and he had a softer stance in regards to Bonds:
“I’m trying to figure out what is actual, and what isn’t, To me, the one thing forgotten in this thing is the mission statement. Character is a big part of it. You have to not only have the numbers, but the character that matches it
If you have first-hand knowledge that a player used, or has publicly acknowledged it, I think it’s an easy decision. When it is circumstance and evidence, and you don’t know, and just follow the rumor mill, that’s difficult for the writer to be judge and jury.”
This is not exactly an endorsement for Bonds, but it is not a condemnation either.
As it stands now, Bonds and his “PED brethren” are on the outside looking in, but from revealed ballots it looks like he and his ilk are inching closer to the 75% needed to get in. As some writers have put it, the fact Bud Selig has been chosen by the Today’s Game Committee, it is harder to omit the players who juiced up under his watch.
The Baseball Hall of Fame will announce their Class of 2017 on the 17th of January.
This could be the most interesting vote yet!
Pete Rose
Why is he here? Honestly, major props to Pete Rose for taking bumps from Kane in consecutive Wrestlemanias but is this the guy who should be the inaugural celebrity inductee? We would rather discuss Pete Rose on our Baseball section than here.
Pete Rose tries again
In a seven page letter to Cooperstown, Rose outline that the ban that was imposed him 27 years ago by then commissioner, Bart Giamatti was never designed to ban him from the Hall of Fame. For those unaware, the Baseball Hall of Fame acts independently of MLB. The year before Rose was to be eligible the Hall of Fame passed regulation that those who were banned from MLB were therefore banned from the Hall of Fame.
It is definitely worth noting that current commissioner, Rob Manfred noted when he did not reinstate Rose that this decision was not reflective of the Hall of Fame.
While Rose is banned from the Hall this did not stop Fox Sports from using him on their baseball playoff coverage last nor the Cincinnati Reds from inducting him into their Hall of Fame recently.
As always, we will be watching!
Pete Rose to the Hall of Fame...sort of.
Soon to be located in Milwaukee, The Bobblehead Museum has announced that the bobblehead of Pete Rose, baseball’s all-time hit king will be the first inductee. The vote was decided by an online poll.
Rose will be on hand for the ceremony at the Pabst Theatre and will participate in a Q&A session after.
This appears to be a very fun project and perhaps we will make a pilgrimage there to see the vast collection that they are in the process of procuring. This might be the most fun Hall of Fame ever…with the exception of our Fictitious Athlete and Fictitious Rock and Roll Halls of Fame, of course!
Vin Scully does not endorse Pete Rose for the Baseball Hall
In an interview with the AARP Bulletin, the man who in our opinion (and we would like to think everyone else too) is the greatest baseball broadcaster that ever existed, Vin Scully, was asked if he would vote for Pete Rose, who has been banned from Major League Baseball for gambling on the game. Scully was direct in his answer:
“I wouldn’t. Should he be in? He should be. But by his own hand, he locked the door and kept himself outside.”
This is huge for two reasons. First, they don’t come more respected than Scully and when he has an opinion the baseball world will listen.
The second is Scully doesn’t offer his opinions on players, past or present in a negative light often, and when he does it, is makes an impact.
We would love to tell you that this will be the last time that an opinion on Pete Rose will appear on our website, but who are we kidding? Look for the next one in late March.
Our Baseball List has been revised!
The 2016 vote saw Ken Griffey Jr. and Mike Piazza selected for Cooperstown, both of who were in our top five. Obviously, they will be taken out of our Baseball 100, but there will be three new eligible former baseball players who will join them.
Let’s take a look at our new Notinhalloffame.com Baseball Top Ten.
The Cincinnati Reds will induct Pete Rose into their Hall of Fame!
Rose, who is a native of Cincinnati, is still a revered man in that city, and this was where he led the “Big Red Machine” to two World Series Championships in the 1970’s. As a Cincinnati Red, Rose accumulated 3,358 of his 4,256 career Hits; a number that may never be broken. Rose would also win six Hit Titles, three Batting Titles, the Rookie of the Year and an MVP Award in Cincinnati.
The Reds will not only be inducting Rose into their Hall of Fame, but they will also be retiring his number 14, in a ceremony that will take place in June. The organization also announced that they plan to erect a statue in his honor outside Riverfront Stadium.
While we are aware that will be some who will be angry with this decision, we here at Notinhalloffame.com are thrilled with the Cincinnati Reds for this decision, and are happy for Rose and the Baseball fans of Cincinnati.
Pete Rose: still banned and still ineligible
Didn’t it look for a while that Pete Rose had a shot of being welcomed back into the Baseball?
Even though other evidence came into existence how he gambled as a player (he had only thus far admitted to gambling as a Manager), Rose had a gig working as a broadcaster during the Major League Baseball Playoffs for Fox Sports and with a new commissioner, Rob Manfred, who had no ties to Rose’s past, it was thought that the window was opening for the ban on Rose to be lifted.
The window has remained shut.
Rob Manfred announced today that Rose’s lifetime ban has been upheld, and the man who has the most Hits in Major League Baseball history remains ineligible for the Hall of Fame.
This is not to say that had he been reinstated, that he would have been a lock for induction: actually far from it. For Rose to have gotten in, it would have to be an appointed Veteran’s Committee that comprises 16 people, 12 of which would have to say yes.
As it stands, it looks like Pete Rose will remain “1A” on our Notinhalloffame.com Baseball list for a few more years. Maybe, he will never leave it.
Awards = HOF? Part Six: The Silver Slugger (First Base) (MLB)
Needless to say, different awards in different sports yield hall of fame potential. In basketball, the team sport with the least amount of players on a roster, the dividend for greatness much higher. In baseball, it is not as much as a great individual season does not have the same impact.
Awards = HOF? Part Three: The Rookie of the Year (MLB)
We here at Notinhalloffame.com thought it would be fun to take a look at the major awards in North American team sports and see how it translates into Hall of Fame potential.
A new main logo for Notinhalloffame.com!
Maybe you noticed, maybe you didn’t, but we had a logo change here at Notinhalloffame.com.
Since the inception of our site in 2009, our core logo has always had an image of a filmstrip with four different potential Hall of Famers from respective fields. We have alternated from Pete Rose and Barry Bonds for baseball[1], Don Cherry for Hockey and in the past we have had Alice Cooper, Rush, Kiss (who would all get in) and now currently Deep Purple representing Rock and Roll.
The WWE, had always been represented by an iconic picture of Randy “Macho Man” Savage holding the Intercontinental Title. Savage had fallen so far out of favor with the WWE that it almost literally took his death and a few years in top of it to get him into the Hall.
With Savage’s induction, a new WWE figure was needed…something that pops out right away.
We have elected to go with former three time Tag Team Champions, Demolition.
I know what some of you might be thinking. Ax and Smash aren’t even in your top twenty-five and there has been little push for them to get in. That may be, however this was a very popular team in their day, and damned if that look doesn’t stick out on the logo!
Besides with Bruno Sammartino, The Ultimate Warrior and Randy Savage now in, the ones who are no longer active or deceased who NEEDED to be there are now there. That makes the other spot a lot harder to fill, so why not with a tandem of a former Masked Superstar and Soviet sympathizer?
For the record, here are the other wrestling personalities that had been considered to take the spot of the “Macho Man” on the Notinhalloffame.com logo.
“The British Bulldog”, Davey Boy Smith
So there it is.
Our current Notinhalloffame.com logo has Barry Bonds, Don Cherry, Demolition and Deep Purple.
Who will be the next one from our logo who will have to be removed because he/they got into their respective Hall of Fame?
As always, we here at Notinhalloffame.com would like to thank you for your support and look forward to your feedback!
[1] With the PED controversy, it seemed more appropriate to interject a steroids guy over a gambler. Notice we didn’t say “inject”!
Gossage and Thomas talk about Pete Rose
Gossage and Thomas however do not have the same opinion on Pete Rose’s candidacy.
The former relief pitcher spoke with Platform Media and had the following to say about Pete Rose and a potential Baseball Hall of Fame induction:
“It’s only a formality that Pete be elected to the Hall of Fame...As young players, the thing you learn early is to not gamble on the game or you will be suspended for life.
If we let Pete in, then gambling and everything else is out the window...The horse is out of the barn. What will that mean?...An old man once told me there’s a paddle for everyone’s ass. The paddle for Pete’s butt is not getting inducted into the Hall of Fame.”
Paddle for Pete’s butt?
As for Frank Thomas, he spoke with CBS.Sports.com and had a different take on the matter:
“What he did on the field was worthy of the Hall of Fame. Yes, he made a huge mistake and he’s been living his life trying to repair that. Based upon what he did on the field, I believe he should be in the Hall of Fame.”
Thomas clearly has a different take on gambling than he did in regards to performance enhancing drugs.
What this means for Rose is that there are certainly players, and it is many former players who comprise the Hall of Fame Veteran’s Committee, the only avenue in which Rose can get in that are adamant against the Hit King joining them.
As you can imagine, the Pete Rose Hall of Fame watch will continue to remain interesting!
Pete Rose's HOF Chances just got more remote
With a new commissioner in place (Rob Manfred), who was distancing himself from Bud Selig, a major obstacle was removed. Manfred himself had said that it was something he was open to talk about. Many of the fellow baseball players who predated Rose and were against him being in the Hall are no longer with us. Rampant PED use made his gambling sins look tame in comparison.
As we all know, Rose was banned from baseball when it was proven that he bet on games while as a Manager for the Cincinnati Reds, allegations he denied for years until he admitted it in a 2004 autobiography, though he stated that he never bet on the game as a player, and it was never proven that he did…
Until now.
A report from ESPN’s “Outside The Lines” shows concrete evidence that Rose did place wagers as a player and did so with mob-connected bookmakers, information that will likely render his appeal for reinstatement moot as this uncovers another deception against the rules of baseball.
At age 74, Rose does not likely have the time to get forgiveness for this latest or recently discovered) transgression. It is also interesting that it was expected that Rose would have some involvement in the All Star Game that is being held in Cincinnati in three weeks, though that participation will probably be revoked.
We here at Notinhalloffame.com feel that Pete Rose is still a Hall of Famer, but our expectations of that happening are gone now.
3. Pete Rose
Statistically, there is no argument about the Hall of Fame qualifications of Pete Rose. Even the most casual baseball fan is aware that “Charlie Hustle” is the all-time hit king with 4,256 hits, a record that may never be broken. Rose was also a 17-time All-Star and proved to be a clutch performer, as evidenced by his three World Series Rings, including a World Series MVP. Sadly, as much as casual sports fans are aware of Rose’s on-field accomplishments, many who have never turned their dial to ESPN know his off-field embarrassments.
As many are aware, Pete Rose was banned from Baseball for betting on the sport. This has long been considered taboo in Major League Baseball, as the league has prohibited its players from betting on the sport. Rose was caught, most specifically, regularly wagering on his own team.
Here is where it gets interesting for us at NIHOF. We will flat-out tell you that the five of us who comprise the NIHOF committee are borderline degenerate gamblers, so it seems wrong to us to come down on a kindred spirit. That said, nothing in our line of work prevents us from placing a wager or two; there was for Pete Rose.
What made it worse was that Rose denied the allegations for years. How different would it have been had he owned up and admitted what he did? When heroes fall (and sadly, we are a society that wants to see it happen), the expectation is that they own up to their mistakes and are forgiven. One only has to look at the current situation with Andy Petite and Roger Clemens and see the reactions to these two pitchers. Petite apologized, and when he pitches today, fans don’t think about his former PED use. Clemens is on TV; all we can think about are his hollow denials.
This isn’t to say Pete Rose would have been reinstated if he had admitted his guilt. Baseball is rooted so deeply in tradition that it often fails to move forward. There is a very sizable chance that Rose would have remained ineligible had he admitted that wrongdoing twenty years ago. What probably cemented his fate is that when he finally did admit to gambling on Baseball, it was in 2004 upon releasing a book. The timing was awful as he did so two days after the Baseball Hall of Fame announced their 2004 inductees. It reeked of selfishness, and the apology fell flat to many.
Regardless, we hope Pete Rose will be inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame at some point, but now it will be posthumously. There is a chance now, as Commissioner Rob Manfred has unbanned Rose (and others) from the game, and it will be a fascinating case for the Veterans Committee, should he make it. There should be no doubt that many believe he is the greatest omission of any Hall of Fame period. There is no question about that. Pete will, however, likely be our Hit King candidate for years to come.