Committee Chairman
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2016 HOF Debate: Ken Griffey Jr.
Jan 02, 2016
Published in
Hall of Fame Debates
Last year, we did our first ever debate on Notinhalloffame.com where we tackled the Hall of Fame merit of twenty-four men who are on the Hall of Fame ballot, in what was in our opinion the most loaded ballot in our lifetime.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
Chairman: This should be a no-brainer, with stress on the word “should”. I have yet to read a publication, a blog, or a smoke signal that says that Ken Griffey Jr. is not a Hall of Famer. Yet, there is going to be a handful of voters who won’t check his name off and we know why don’t we?
It will be a few of those self-righteous pricks who will say “well, I don’t know who used PEDs or not from that era” and point to the enlarged head that he had when he played for Mr. Burns softball team as evidence that he used HGH.
It was Brain and Nerve tonic, goddamn it, and it was not on the banned substance list!
Bad Springfield jokes aside, Griffey is this year’s lock, and should be. My only question is what the second digit is on the vote, because the first one is a nine!
Spheniscus: That’s the thing though, there is no way to know who did and didn’t use at that time. Mike Piazza by practically any measure is the greatest hitting catcher of all time. He should have been a first ballot Hall of Famer. He’s now on his 4th time through? Why? Because he was a big guy and played in the steroid era and is therefore part of the whisper campaign.
Why don’t we think Griffey used? Because he was a phenom? Well, so was his teammate Alex Rodriguez, who was a user. Because he was skinny? Have you seen Ryan Franklin? He’d need to wear a dive belt to hit 150 pounds. He was a user. Because he’s a nice guy? Mike Cameron may be the nicest person ever in baseball. He was a user.
To be fair, I don’t believe that Griffey used. And obviously what my father would have called the Ivory Soap percentage of the voters don’t either. He will most likely end up with 95% plus of the vote. But if people take the stand that no one from the era gets in because they don’t know who used, the stand is stupid but it is at least consistent. I don’t hold it against them. Those guys aren’t the self-righteous pricks in my book. They are dumbasses, but not pricks.
Those who don’t vote for him because it is the first time he is eligible and not even Babe Ruth got 100% of the vote are the self-righteous pricks. Those people can just turn in their ballot privileges.
Although I do wonder if there are a percentage that won’t vote for Griffey knowing that he will skate in and that an extra vote for someone further down the ballot would help someone they think is a worthy candidate. If you truly believe that Edgar Martinez is a Hall of Famer, but he is 11th on your list, why not leave Griffey blank and vote for Martinez? That may also depress Griffey’s vote percentage while the people who are doing it are actually on the side of the angels.
Chairman: Griffey will go down in a long list of men who should have received 100 percent of the ballot because of the self-righteous pricks/dumbasses we both spoke of. Personally, I prefer the term “sanctimonious douchebag”, but maybe that is because how I have been viewing Hawkeye in M*A*S*H reruns last night in a drunken bender watching that show on a marathon.
While you are right that we don’t know whether Griffey Jr. juiced or not, and I am with you in that he probably didn’t, based mostly on his post 30 numbers as opposed to prior to. It was a natural decline that made sense, not some Dorian Gray/Benjamin Button statistical increase like some had.
Slight tangent here; looking back it is impossible to believe that the Mariners with Griffey, Martinez, A-Rod and Randy Johnson never made the World Series. Maybe even more surprising is that Jay Buhner was the most popular of all of them for a time. If he had hair, half the people outside of Seattle would not know his name, and he wouldn’t have been mentioned in a Seinfeld episode.
Actually that was a really big tangent.
Spheniscus: Funny, I presume that Sanctimonious Douchebag is the name of the band that always opens for Train on every one of their tours.
And the real reason that people remember Buhner is that it is the last good trade the Mariners ever made. Not that they did historically badly in their trades of Griffey or Johnson, but the Mariners have built a reputation as the team you talk to when you want to rebuild your franchise. The 2004 and 2007 World Series never happen if the Mariners don’t exchange Derek Lowe and Jason Varitek for Heathcliff Slocumb. Although to be fair they definitely got the better of us in 1996 when we traded an over-the-hill 34-year-old Jamie Moyer for the seven year younger Right Fielder of the future Darren Bragg. A man who would retire a FULL EIGHT YEARS BEFORE MOYER!
Anyway, where were we? Oh yes, Griffey. He’s getting in. Easily.
Chairman: Now you got me thinking…
“Sanctimonious Douchebag” would be a great name for either Coldplay or Nickelback. The fact that Coldplay is doing the Halftime show at this year’s Super Bowl has made me consider starting a crowdfund to get the Wayans Brothers to bring back their halftime counter on Fox in a “In Living Color” comeback.
Wait, Moyer retired? Doesn’t he seem like somebody who would be signed by the St. Paul Saints right now?
Anyways, Griffey has my pretend vote, and the real one of most of the voters. Since, there has never been (and never will be because there are too many writers who enjoy the fact that they have this power) a candidate entering at 100%, I will peg Junior’s tally at 97.3%.
Although that 2.7% need to have their voting privileges revoked immediately as well as their access to any computer so that they can continue their writing career.
Spheniscus: So with 550 voters, 97.3 means 15 people wouldn’t vote for Griffey. That actually seems too low to me. I’m going to presume there are 25 or 30 people who don’t for one reason or another. 25 means 95.5%. I’ll stick there.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
Chairman: This should be a no-brainer, with stress on the word “should”. I have yet to read a publication, a blog, or a smoke signal that says that Ken Griffey Jr. is not a Hall of Famer. Yet, there is going to be a handful of voters who won’t check his name off and we know why don’t we?
It will be a few of those self-righteous pricks who will say “well, I don’t know who used PEDs or not from that era” and point to the enlarged head that he had when he played for Mr. Burns softball team as evidence that he used HGH.
It was Brain and Nerve tonic, goddamn it, and it was not on the banned substance list!
Bad Springfield jokes aside, Griffey is this year’s lock, and should be. My only question is what the second digit is on the vote, because the first one is a nine!
Spheniscus: That’s the thing though, there is no way to know who did and didn’t use at that time. Mike Piazza by practically any measure is the greatest hitting catcher of all time. He should have been a first ballot Hall of Famer. He’s now on his 4th time through? Why? Because he was a big guy and played in the steroid era and is therefore part of the whisper campaign.
Why don’t we think Griffey used? Because he was a phenom? Well, so was his teammate Alex Rodriguez, who was a user. Because he was skinny? Have you seen Ryan Franklin? He’d need to wear a dive belt to hit 150 pounds. He was a user. Because he’s a nice guy? Mike Cameron may be the nicest person ever in baseball. He was a user.
To be fair, I don’t believe that Griffey used. And obviously what my father would have called the Ivory Soap percentage of the voters don’t either. He will most likely end up with 95% plus of the vote. But if people take the stand that no one from the era gets in because they don’t know who used, the stand is stupid but it is at least consistent. I don’t hold it against them. Those guys aren’t the self-righteous pricks in my book. They are dumbasses, but not pricks.
Those who don’t vote for him because it is the first time he is eligible and not even Babe Ruth got 100% of the vote are the self-righteous pricks. Those people can just turn in their ballot privileges.
Although I do wonder if there are a percentage that won’t vote for Griffey knowing that he will skate in and that an extra vote for someone further down the ballot would help someone they think is a worthy candidate. If you truly believe that Edgar Martinez is a Hall of Famer, but he is 11th on your list, why not leave Griffey blank and vote for Martinez? That may also depress Griffey’s vote percentage while the people who are doing it are actually on the side of the angels.
Chairman: Griffey will go down in a long list of men who should have received 100 percent of the ballot because of the self-righteous pricks/dumbasses we both spoke of. Personally, I prefer the term “sanctimonious douchebag”, but maybe that is because how I have been viewing Hawkeye in M*A*S*H reruns last night in a drunken bender watching that show on a marathon.
While you are right that we don’t know whether Griffey Jr. juiced or not, and I am with you in that he probably didn’t, based mostly on his post 30 numbers as opposed to prior to. It was a natural decline that made sense, not some Dorian Gray/Benjamin Button statistical increase like some had.
Slight tangent here; looking back it is impossible to believe that the Mariners with Griffey, Martinez, A-Rod and Randy Johnson never made the World Series. Maybe even more surprising is that Jay Buhner was the most popular of all of them for a time. If he had hair, half the people outside of Seattle would not know his name, and he wouldn’t have been mentioned in a Seinfeld episode.
Actually that was a really big tangent.
Spheniscus: Funny, I presume that Sanctimonious Douchebag is the name of the band that always opens for Train on every one of their tours.
And the real reason that people remember Buhner is that it is the last good trade the Mariners ever made. Not that they did historically badly in their trades of Griffey or Johnson, but the Mariners have built a reputation as the team you talk to when you want to rebuild your franchise. The 2004 and 2007 World Series never happen if the Mariners don’t exchange Derek Lowe and Jason Varitek for Heathcliff Slocumb. Although to be fair they definitely got the better of us in 1996 when we traded an over-the-hill 34-year-old Jamie Moyer for the seven year younger Right Fielder of the future Darren Bragg. A man who would retire a FULL EIGHT YEARS BEFORE MOYER!
Anyway, where were we? Oh yes, Griffey. He’s getting in. Easily.
Chairman: Now you got me thinking…
“Sanctimonious Douchebag” would be a great name for either Coldplay or Nickelback. The fact that Coldplay is doing the Halftime show at this year’s Super Bowl has made me consider starting a crowdfund to get the Wayans Brothers to bring back their halftime counter on Fox in a “In Living Color” comeback.
Wait, Moyer retired? Doesn’t he seem like somebody who would be signed by the St. Paul Saints right now?
Anyways, Griffey has my pretend vote, and the real one of most of the voters. Since, there has never been (and never will be because there are too many writers who enjoy the fact that they have this power) a candidate entering at 100%, I will peg Junior’s tally at 97.3%.
Although that 2.7% need to have their voting privileges revoked immediately as well as their access to any computer so that they can continue their writing career.
Spheniscus: So with 550 voters, 97.3 means 15 people wouldn’t vote for Griffey. That actually seems too low to me. I’m going to presume there are 25 or 30 people who don’t for one reason or another. 25 means 95.5%. I’ll stick there.
2016 HOF Debate: Barry Bonds
Jan 01, 2016
Published in
Hall of Fame Debates
Last year, we did our first ever debate on Notinhalloffame.com where we tackled the Hall of Fame merit of twenty-four men who are on the Hall of Fame ballot, in what was in our opinion the most loaded ballot in our lifetime.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
2016 HOF Debate: Roger Clemens
Jan 01, 2016
Published in
Hall of Fame Debates
Last year, we did our first ever debate on Notinhalloffame.com where we tackled the Hall of Fame merit of twenty-four men who are on the Hall of Fame ballot, in what was in our opinion the most loaded ballot in our lifetime.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
2016 HOF Debate: Troy Glaus
Jan 01, 2016
Published in
Hall of Fame Debates
Last year, we did our first ever debate on Notinhalloffame.com where we tackled the Hall of Fame merit of twenty-four men who are on the Hall of Fame ballot, in what was in our opinion the most loaded ballot in our lifetime.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
Chairman: I remembered what you said about Garret Anderson, and I have a similar memory of Troy Glaus, whether he was playing for the Blue Jays or not. He is just one of those players, who whenever I saw him play live or on television always seemed to be on. He hit 320 Home Runs over his career and it feels like I have seen half of them. He is like my retro Anti-R.A. Dickey. Every time I am in a position where I can watch the Jays play, it is usually the knuckleballer and usually when he shits the bed.
But I digress (again).
That might be how I remember Glaus, and I am sure there are a lot of people in Southern California who think of Glaus and his 2002 World Series MVP (is that a lesser version of how I view Joe Carter?) but I wonder how many people only remembering Glaus for his strikeouts. He did that…a lot. He is one of the few who has more whiffs than hits and is there my counterpart who every time he flipped through the channels saw him swing and miss at strike three?
Here is my early prediction. Glaus is not just a one and done. He will receive exactly one vote on the ballot. There is someone on that Angels beat that will give him that for the World Series he helped them win.
Spheniscus: So Glaus is going to be the next Jim Deshaies, huh? We should probably register www.puttginthehall.com then. To be fair, he was a significantly better player than Deshaies and probably deserves more than one vote. But on a ballot with somewhere around 13 legitimate Hall of Famers (depending on how you feel about steroids) and only 10 players that each writer can vote for, I don’t think he even gets that.
He never finished higher than 30th in MVP voting, which happened once. He made four All Star Teams, won two Silver Sluggers and HAD MORE STRIKE OUTS THAN HITS FOR HIS CAREER (1377 vs. 1375). And his comparables include Danny Tartabull, Jeromy Burnitz, and Dean Palmer. Three guys who had respectable careers but are in nobody’s Hall. He’s not a Hall of Famer. He is a really good player who had a 13 year career and completely fell off a cliff when he hit the wrong side of 30. There is no shame in that. I also don’t think there will be any votes though.
Chairman: I can’t even run this site! Glaus could very well receive a goose egg, perhaps significant considering how many of his at bats amounted to nothing. Would that make him one of the best players to ever get skunked? He wouldn’t be the best as that goes to Jim Wynn, but that might be an article for another time.
I think it is safe to say that when we are talking more about what he didn’t do as opposed to what he did do, we don’t have much of a candidate do we?
Spheniscus: Agreed. Glaus was a very good player for a very good time. When you were playing his team and the game was on the line, you held your breath while he was at the plate. I just don’t think he’s holding his breath in early January. Getting two votes would be a coup.
Chairman: This is easy. I vote no, and since I need to do an official prediction, I think he will get a charity vote, maybe from somebody in Southern California.
I don’t think Glaus will hang by his phone that day either waiting for that call. The real question is will he be golfing or fishing that day?
Spheniscus: Is there a way to do both? Because that is the most exciting thing that will be happening to him that day. Clearly he doesn’t get my vote. And I suspect he’ll strike out one more time. No votes for Mr. Glaus.
Since it was so much fun last time, we thought we would do it again!
One thing that has not changed is the number. We will again debate twenty-four men who are on the ballot.
What has changed are the ones debating. Last year I had the pleasure of having DDT, the curator of DDT’s Pop Flies blog and D.K. of the Phillies Archivist blog. This year, Spheniscus, who has participated in past Rock and Roll discussions, will be joining me.
Chairman: I remembered what you said about Garret Anderson, and I have a similar memory of Troy Glaus, whether he was playing for the Blue Jays or not. He is just one of those players, who whenever I saw him play live or on television always seemed to be on. He hit 320 Home Runs over his career and it feels like I have seen half of them. He is like my retro Anti-R.A. Dickey. Every time I am in a position where I can watch the Jays play, it is usually the knuckleballer and usually when he shits the bed.
But I digress (again).
That might be how I remember Glaus, and I am sure there are a lot of people in Southern California who think of Glaus and his 2002 World Series MVP (is that a lesser version of how I view Joe Carter?) but I wonder how many people only remembering Glaus for his strikeouts. He did that…a lot. He is one of the few who has more whiffs than hits and is there my counterpart who every time he flipped through the channels saw him swing and miss at strike three?
Here is my early prediction. Glaus is not just a one and done. He will receive exactly one vote on the ballot. There is someone on that Angels beat that will give him that for the World Series he helped them win.
Spheniscus: So Glaus is going to be the next Jim Deshaies, huh? We should probably register www.puttginthehall.com then. To be fair, he was a significantly better player than Deshaies and probably deserves more than one vote. But on a ballot with somewhere around 13 legitimate Hall of Famers (depending on how you feel about steroids) and only 10 players that each writer can vote for, I don’t think he even gets that.
He never finished higher than 30th in MVP voting, which happened once. He made four All Star Teams, won two Silver Sluggers and HAD MORE STRIKE OUTS THAN HITS FOR HIS CAREER (1377 vs. 1375). And his comparables include Danny Tartabull, Jeromy Burnitz, and Dean Palmer. Three guys who had respectable careers but are in nobody’s Hall. He’s not a Hall of Famer. He is a really good player who had a 13 year career and completely fell off a cliff when he hit the wrong side of 30. There is no shame in that. I also don’t think there will be any votes though.
Chairman: I can’t even run this site! Glaus could very well receive a goose egg, perhaps significant considering how many of his at bats amounted to nothing. Would that make him one of the best players to ever get skunked? He wouldn’t be the best as that goes to Jim Wynn, but that might be an article for another time.
I think it is safe to say that when we are talking more about what he didn’t do as opposed to what he did do, we don’t have much of a candidate do we?
Spheniscus: Agreed. Glaus was a very good player for a very good time. When you were playing his team and the game was on the line, you held your breath while he was at the plate. I just don’t think he’s holding his breath in early January. Getting two votes would be a coup.
Chairman: This is easy. I vote no, and since I need to do an official prediction, I think he will get a charity vote, maybe from somebody in Southern California.
I don’t think Glaus will hang by his phone that day either waiting for that call. The real question is will he be golfing or fishing that day?
Spheniscus: Is there a way to do both? Because that is the most exciting thing that will be happening to him that day. Clearly he doesn’t get my vote. And I suspect he’ll strike out one more time. No votes for Mr. Glaus.