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Steve Cox
Oct 15, 2013
Published in
Interviews
One of the great perks of running this website is that I occasionally I get to interview some very interesting people. With that said, I am confident that I have never spoke with anyone tougher than when I spoke with former USFL player and Professional Wrestler, Steve Cox. Seriously, I think if I angered him over the phone, he would have had the ability to summon up the ability to reach through my I-Phone and render me an invalid at will.
Steve may have also been one of the funniest people I have had the pleasure to talk to. As i listened back to his stories in his distinctive Midwestern drawl, the amount of times I found myself bursting out laughing eclipsed any other interview I have ever done.[i]
I found the timing to be perfect. Currently, the WWE is promoting a Mid-South wrestling DVD, and though Cox did not officially compete there, he was there in final portion of Mid-South’s finale, the UWF. Cox may not have been the biggest name in the business, but he did compete against and befriend those who were. He also was an amateur wrestler who would later compete in the early shoot promotions in Japan, which itself would foreshadow the Mixed Martial Arts that has become popular now.
With special thanks to our mutual friend, Chavo Guerrero Sr., I hope you enjoy the transcript of my chat with Steve Cox.
You had a great football career at the University of Tulsa, correct?
“I grew up out in the middle of nowhere, three miles across into Kansas, and I was a real good Linebacker and wrestler and I got a full ride scholarship to Tulsa University. That’s how I got there.”
This took you to the USFL right?
“Yeah, I got out of school and then I got drafted.[ii] I was signed by the New Jersey Generals and was there when Herschel Walker came in. I am going to show my age, but this was back when ESPN was showing us and we were a bunch of lunkheads wondering who would watch 24 hours of sports. This was the early days of (Chris) Berman. Chuck Fairbanks was our Coach.[iii]
I was traded from to the Michigan Panthers[iv] so I went from Hackensack, New Jersey to Pontiac, Michigan and Jim Stanley was our coach. He was one of the original guys who went off with Bear Bryant at Texas A&M. He was a real hardcore coach. Anyway, I was getting beat up pretty badly, and I decided to get out (of Football).”
You mentioned that you were an amateur wrestler in school. Were you a fan of pro wrestling when you were growing up?
Heck no! Now I grew up in Kansas, so I was familiar with Bob Geigel and Harley Race and all those guys. Every now and then we caught a glimpse of the old WWF out of New York. But as a collegiate wrestler, though this has changed since Kurt Angle, a lot of the “real” wrestlers didn’t appreciate “fake” wrestling.
As I got out of the USFL, and back in the day there weren’t a lot of gyms, and I always went to Moguin’s Gym by TU (Tulsa University). When the wrestlers came through, that’s where they worked out. I was actually talking to of all people, Sting[v] and he asked me if I ever thought about being a pro wrestler, and I said ‘not really’. That weekend there was an article in the paper about the UWF, Bill Watts and the Rock and Roll Express and how they had a sold out crowd downtown. The guy who owned the gym was a friend of Bill Watts and he called him up and I met Bill Watts.[vi]
I didn’t realize at the time what Bill was all about. He asked me if I had (wrestling) boots and I said no. He said I had no possibility in hell until I go t some boots as he couldn’t get me in the ring and do much with me. He said, stay and watch the show, and they did TV every Sunday night in Tulsa and that place was sold out like lightning.
I got some boots in this place out of Arkansas. Back in the day, there weren’t too many places you could buy (wrestling) boots unlike now where you can buy them all over the place. Anyway, I got my boots and I got my trunks and I got a call that he wanted me at the arena at four o’clock, which was pretty early because they started at seven. I get there, and he (Watts) says suit up, and I go out to the ring. We’re in the middle of the ring and Watts says ‘Hit the ropes’, and I’m running back and forth hitting the ropes. He said ‘Drop down, hit the ropes. Drop down, hit the ropes’, then he says be at my house, which was near Tulsa at two o’clock Sunday.
I got to his house and we drove to Miami, Oklahoma and we go to this armory and he said you’re going to wrestle tonight. I’m like ‘Oh Shit, I’m not planning on it!’, but I get to the arena and there is Terry Taylor, Rick Steiner, Doc (Steve Williams) and my first match is with Mike George.
It was a small armory, but this place was packed to the ceiling with people. I go out there and Mike George[vii] is my first match and Tommy Gilbert is the referee. I should have known from the first match when I went over that I was being brought in as Dr. Death’s protégé, but I had never took a bump. Mike was slamming me, giving me boots, but Tommy was getting in my ear that ‘we have a superstar here!’ I couldn’t even breathe during the match! Mike did the deal where I grabbed the ropes and he falls back and then 123 kick and I take a powder and I am beat to shit.
After, Terry Taylor says ‘Now why would Watts want a jabroni[viii] to get ahead?’ you know what I’m saying? They’re all inquisitive and watching ‘cause Watts liked big men. That’s why he used to crack on the Memphis territory, and how you had to put over midgets[ix]. Watts wanted you to understand that you had to bump for the right people at the right time.
That night, there was (Skandor) Akbar from Devastation Incorporated[x] , The One Man Gang, Eli the Eliminator and Bill said to me that I can’t to a Stampede run[xi] which was Doc’s finisher so I was told to do a Side Russian Leg Sweep for my finish. I think Bill Irwin came up with that. The deal that night was that I would go watch Doc have a match with Mike George which was a technical match. Doc goes over and Devastation runs in, and I jump in. Now, I don’t know shit about the business, that’s how green I was. After that, every night I was working and every night I was getting killed in the ring. I was getting crowbarred, the old school way. There wasn’t a lot of wrestling schools; that was my school, right there.
They came up with an angle where I would be the Rookie of the Year. My first marriage[xii] was really against Gary Young. He really cleaned me up pretty good. Every night we did the same match, but it was always different. I don’t know if you heard some of the boys say this, but (Ric) Flair’s match was always the same but they are always different.[xiii] The boys knew how to tell the difference.
At the time I was fortunate enough to run around with the top guys and I kept my mouth shut, and I learned a lot. I had my first ever squash match, I put over Bubba (Rogers) real good; Watts loved that; which helped Doc when he went in to help. The thing about Watts is that he told me a lot of stuff that didn’t make sense at the time, but it helped me later on to see the business as not just as worker but as a promoter.”
Did you get some heat with the boys because you came in with a decent position, especially since you did not have a professional wrestling background?
“Oh yeah. I was brought in, green as green could be and at the time Bill Watts was negotiating with the NWA[xiv] . We were working tight every night. Now when they would come at me, and I’m not the sharpest guy on the stick but when we got to a certain point, I was like ‘Fuck You’, and I would stand up (for myself). Like I said, I was a real good High School athlete, I wrestled, I played Football, I could slow them down. But I had to respect the fact I was crowbarred in, and it wasn’t easy for them to take that. I understood. Nowadays (aspiring wrestlers) go to school; real boy band shit. In my day it wasn’t that way. You had to be one mean, tough son of a bitch to get through this shit! Staring out the way I was (with a good spot), it just wasn’t done that way.
I remember Terry Taylor, he had to lace up my boots[xv] . Terry said ‘Look at this fucking guy!’. It was hilarious. Chavo (Guerrero Sr.) of all people showed me how to tuck in my laces. That’s how bad I was, I didn’t know how to lace up boots. These guys would thump me pretty good, because I couldn’t lace up boots. If I couldn’t do that, why would they want give me anything (in the ring)? “
Was there anyone who took you under their wing when you were starting out?
Yeah, Chavo. He was the most consummate worker, he understands the business, and he grew up in the business. Everything he did (in the ring) had meaning. He was the total package, and he was one hell of a partier! Sometimes he would go too far out there, and you would have to reel him back in, but that was Chavo!
I had Gary Young, I had Doc, and Terry Gordy. I would ask them to watch my matches and have them critique it. This is another way that Watts helped me; he said when they tell you what to do, don’t say ‘Yeah, but’. They don’t care what you’re thinking. Listen to what they’re telling you. They will check to see if you listened, and from there you will get more information.
I just lived, learned and watched. I rode with everyone from Flair, Arn Anderson and really everyone. You have to realize that in my first year to two years in the business I had almost five hundred matches. I was dong singles and tags often on the same card, and as a new guy that was the norm.
One night, me and Sting after (Ultimate) Warrior left[xvi] I pained my face and worked with him as his partner against (Rick) Steiner and somebody else. Jeff Gaylord, I think. Think about it, these indy kids nowadays wouldn’t be working with the best in the business in their first five hundred matches. That doesn’t happen anymore. The work was tough. We weren’t just suspending disbelief, we were really tough. In time, I could work 60’s style, 70’s style, 80’s style, 90’s style, Bullrope Match, two minute match, six minute match; whatever.
The most important match is the opening match. A lot of green guys don’t even know that. The opener sets the tempo and the crowd. It is not an easy match, usually fifteen minutes and a time limit draw; a lot of false finishes. These kids today don’t know; you don’t get that anymore.”
You were there when the NWA merged with the UWF. Chavo Guerrero told me that he didn’t see it coming, and that it was a surprise to him. Was it a surprise to you also?
“A lot of people thought something was up. Now I didn’t really, because I was just happy to be in the same locker room as these guys, but it goes back to what Bill always said which is ‘negotiate your own contract’. Now that was his territory, and he gave us ‘We’re all in this together’ speech about generating synergy (between the two organizations). Well, he dropped the bottom out and he skated out, and we didn’t get much out of that deal. There were a lot of guys hot.”
Where did you go after that (the NWA UWF Merger)? Did you go to the NWA?
“The deal was that Dusty Rhodes[xvii] was the one who called me and told me I wasn’t needed anymore. I needed a break as my body was beat to shit. I got a call from (Bob) Geigel, and I just wanted to work with “Bulldog” Bob Brown[xviii], so I asked if Bulldog was still there. I wanted to work there just to get my picture taken with Brown and send it to my roommate from College who was from Kansas City and was a big Bulldog Bob Brown fan.
I went up there, and anytime you walk into the territories, they might know you, they might not. TV coverage wasn’t that national yet. I remember I worked a match with Mike Golden. I didn’t know much about Mike and how great he was until we got in the ring. As soon as we tied up after two minutes I was like ‘Let’s get it on’ and we had a good match. I worked for about a week up there.
Then I get a call from the same place that ran the office side for the UWF and they told me that WCCW is coming in and I was asked if I wanted to tag up with Michael Hayes going up against the Samoans[xix] , but you got to lose. I’m told them I’m there.”
You were brought in as Michael Hayes’ protégé, were you not?
“It kind of worked out that way. Really, they wanted (Jimmy) Garvin, but Garvin and Michael couldn’t hold up the way the Samoans worked. It was only supposed to be one match, but the Samoans loved me. Anyway, I get a call from Pritchard down there, asking me if I could be there for Friday. It was funny, because Michael really pushed for Garvin, but the office was like nope, and they liked the big, blonde Texas style wrestler, you know what I’m saying?
I go down there, and this is where I first met Fritz (Von Erich)[xx] . They were trying to negotiate with me, but I already had a deal in hand with Kansas City but it was a good deal to down to Texas. I signed a contract, though it took a while as we kept going back and forth and I finally said ‘I’m out of here’, and he said, ‘Hey, hold on’, and we hammered it out. That was the first time I met Fritz, though I had no fucking clue who Fritz was. We shook hands, and I never worried once about my paycheck. I was now working with Michael against the Samoans and we had one of the top tag team programs in the United States. It was a real good time.”
You did a few shots with the AWA, did you not?
“Oh yeah, but that was all tied in. By that time, everything was crumbling. What happened was, I talked to the guys in Atlanta[xxi] , and they were like ‘You don’t want to come here!’ Usually, I give people the benefit of the doubt but if there is one person in life and literally I would do this for the boys, I would KO Eric Bischoff. I knew some guys there. The Steiners, Buff was there and Steve Austin. Hell, I’m the one who told (Austin) to go to Texas! Of all the people one night, he asked me to watch his match over in Memphis. I was kind of impressed that this kid wanted me to watch his match. I said the first thing you got to do is change the name from Steve Williams. He said to me, ‘There is another Steve Williams?’ I swear to God, he said that! I started to laugh thinking that this fucker was as dumb as I was! In the business, I was probably the dumbest son of a bitch to come in, and I wear that proudly because I humble myself to the fact that I was one dumb son of a bitch. He asked what name I should have, and I said do the porno shit, where you take the first name of your first pet, and the last name is the street you grew up on. As everything was falling apart (The territory system in American Wrestling), I was doing a lot in Japan.
Which promotion in Japan?
The UWFI and New Japan. I was also with another upstart shoot promotion. Doc got me over there. It was good money; I was making $2,500 a week there. I didn’t do a lot of indy shows around Tulsa, but I did do them all over the Midwest. I even did some in Philadelphia before ECW started. I worked a lot with Mankind (Mick Foley), before he was Mankind. I remember the 1-2-3 Kid coming in[xxii] , I did a lot with Shane (Douglas) back East and did Europe too. I got to see a lot of Europe with Shane, and we tagged up a bunch. I like the way that Shane kind of morphed into that “Franchise” character.
Actually, I would like to talk to you more about Japan.
Let me break it all down. All-Japan had a death grip on that whole market over there, and a lot of guys were starting to do their own shows. You know Gary Albright?[xxiii] ”
Yes.
“Gary Albright and the Shoot promotion over there.”[xxiv]
Was that a more fitting style for you?
“I suplexed the hell out of those people! But, I had to take some serious shots there, but the money was so good. It was funny, I was working with one group, and there was a lot of cross promotion. I remember at the Tokyo Dome, when (The Great) Muta showed up, and I was drunk as shit. I knew Muta, as his first American tour was in WCCW with us. I worked a bunch with Muta. They were pretty prejudiced towards us gaijins[xxv] , but yeah, I bounced around and worked with five different groups over there. I did a lot of submission style wrestling there. I also did a lot of boxing and pad up with linemen’s gloves. Yeah, it was rough.
In Japan, I slowly started stepping over into the real world. I got a call from New York (The WWF) and at the time they were getting their ass kicked by Atlanta. In today’s world you wouldn’t think about it. The money (in the WWE) is so good, but they run your ass ragged in the ground. That’s why all these guys flamed out, suicide but for three million dollars and 250 days on the road, you just shut the fuck up and do it.”
What made you want to leave wrestling?
“I was in Iowa, and I saw a father and son fight over cocaine in the locker room, I thought do I want to have that conversation with my son? None of these guys had good relationships with their kids until much later when they begin to understand. I made up my mind that I would try coaching football. I wouldn’t make as much money, but I would have a better life. I didn’t get out clean, as I had to go to rehab but overall I did transition well (out of wrestling) when it is all said and done. I was a onetime rehab guy, and I have been clean and sober ever since.”
So you were able to put wrestling behind you. That in itself is a success story as many other former wrestlers have not been able to do that. I am thinking of an example where Diamond Dallas Page is trying to get Jake “The Snake” Roberts recovered, and one of the constant threads in the videos he has put out is that if he fails he won’t be able to get a slot at the Royal Rumble. This is the carrot that Jake seems to need to be motivated. One more pop from the crowd. Let’s say he does get that appearance, and then what will be his motivation? What does he do next?
“Oh, I’m telling ya! Bill Watts told me never to wind up in a cage where people are throwing crumbs at you. That’s where Jake and some of these other guys are at tight now. I think Chavo’s a lot like this too; I think I am a renaissance man. I have been a business owner, a teacher, a coach, I have done sales, and I was in College. I didn’t do the best, but I got a degree. I always told my son, that you can do anything you want to do as long as you harness yourself. You learn as much you can and then make it your own, and then you can do as well as they have done. I have had a lot of different careers.
When I look at Scott Hall[xxvi] , I think ‘God Damn’. You want to hand him a pistol and just say ‘Go ahead and shoot yourself and get it over with’. That sounds really crass, but at some point you have to fight for your life. They will tell you (in rehab) that is not your fault, but fuck that. I got in trouble, because I partied too much, and that was my fault. They kept telling me why I failed, and they coddled it. What really helped me a bunch was dealing with a bunch of old-time drunks.
I’ll tell you the thing I miss about the wrestling business is that I didn’t wrestle in New York. I never went against (Hulk) Hogan, but I have been with everyone from Harley Race, Ric Flair, the Andersons; I had a good run.”
Steve, I always like to close with a bit of word association. I will mention a wrestler and just tell me what word comes to mind, or if something triggers, feel free to expand.
“Alright.”
Eddie Gilbert
“Genius. A great booker, and he did some great angles. He was humble. It wasn’t about him, it was about the book.”
Rick Steiner
“Goofy. Craziest guy I have ever been around in my life. A great consummate worker.”
Kerry Von Erich
“I’ve never seen anybody, and I’ve been a lot of places, I have never seen anybody radiate a room like he could. He just had it. Kerry walked in, and they knew he was a somebody. They might not know who, but they knew he was a somebody.”
The One Man Gang
“Scariest son of a bitch I ever saw. When I first saw him, he spits at me but misses out of politeness. A great big teddy bear of a guy”
Kamala
“Great match. I did some big time spots with him. What a great guy to work with. I loved working with Kamala.”
I think you were there when he started his career, Booker T.
“Yeah. Booker and his brother. When they came in, and don’t get me you wrong, you got to have a lot of swag, you know what I’m saying? I was really surprised he made it has high but I’m not. He was always learning, he picked up his craft quick. He went from a loud thug to someone who mastered his craft. He and Stevie. I liked him. Tag matches; people don’t’ realize what an art form tag team wrestling is. It’s a whole different part of the business that you have to learn. We actually crossed paths more in Japan then we did over here. It was funny, you would go to Ribera’s[xxvii] and that’s how you would find out who all is in the country. In the business, nobody ever says goodbye, they’ll say see you down the road. In that line of work, that’s a fact. You’ll cross paths somewhere.”
The 1-2-3 Kid
“He just got to Texas, and he was already trained well, by the Harts I believe. I’m sitting there looking at this little shit, thinking who the fuck is this guy in his little blue outfit? (Laughs) I made a mistake one time, the first time I saw Jeff Jarrett in Memphis in the locker room and I said (aloud) ‘Who the fuck is he related to?’ (laughs) The boys laughed, but I had a real good match with Jeff.
He (The Kid) comes up to me and says we have a match tonight and that we are going fifteen minutes and asks what are we going to do. Now when you are someone new and you come into someone else’s territory you don’t do shit like that. You should be asking what kind of match will we have tonight, and the veteran will take care of you.
Anyway, I told him to come off the top rope and get as much height as you can, and I’ll catch you. Anyway, I move out of the way and he hits as hard as hell. You should have seen the look on his face on the way by! I just started beating the shit out of him and putting the boots to him. He was gone the next day; he wasn’t made for Texas. I think the only reason he got where he did was, was that he was a funny mother fucker, that’s what I heard.”
I think you wrestled him a bit, Stan Lane.
“I think they are replaying a bit of this on ESPN Classics. I was a Midnight Express also. We worked an angle with Bobby (Eaton) Stan and me, and Bobby was out. Lane was just a funny mother fucker. I was plugged into a lot of tags, and I became as good as anybody.
You’ll get a kick out of this. The boys would say you see a room with a revolving door; Steve has that gimmick quarantined! Tag teaming was an art, you had to know when to have the referee cut off, work the hot tags; remember you have five people out there working! If you’ve never done that it can scare you.”
I have a few more for you, Doug Gilbert.
“You took care of him, because he was Eddie Gilbert’s little brother. I liked Doug, but he was no Eddie. He’s still out there working. You could slide him in, no harm, no foul.”
One more for you; Buff Bagwell.
“I knew him as the “Handsome Stranger”[xxviii] . (Skandor) Akbar had him kiss all the girls in the front row. He was just a pretty boy, and when he popped up like he did in Atlanta, I have to give him props.
You got to realize, I hung out with (Bruiser) Brody, Doc, Albright; I wasn’t used to hanging out with a guy like Buff! Guys like that…..Yeah, he was Buff out there (in the ring) but in here (locker room) you’re just a paper tiger. That was like Hogan, but again, props to Hogan, nobody could draw like he could. But, yeah, Buff as the Handsome Stranger did well at the Sportatorium[xxix] out there on “Skank Row”.”
One final question, do you watch wrestling now?
“I do, when I can. Now CM Punk and John Cena, you’ve got to me kidding me. Is this the best you got? Don’t get me wrong, but if this is the best you got, but these guys ain’t Brody. These guys would get destroyed in my day. When you watch the work today, it’s so light. It’s too make believe; too much entertainment. In my day, you believed you were getting your ass kicked, because you actually were.”
Thanks Steve!
[i]And I am only talking about what I can print!
[ii]Cox was selected in the 16th Round in 1983
[iii]Fairbanks was a successful collegiate coach who won the Orange Bowl and two Sugar Bowls with Oklahoma. The job with New Jersey would be his last as a coach in football.
[iv]Michigan was the inaugural USFL Champions.
[v]Sting’s first big break was in the UWF territory which had a large base in Oklahoma
[vi]Watts was the owner of the UWF, and notoriously known for his toughness.
[vii]George was a journeyman wrestler who held multiple regional championships in the United States but was an underneath worker at this stage of his career.
[viii]“Jabroni” is slang for someone who does the “job” in the ring. Basically; the one who loses on a regular basis.
[ix]The Memphis territory traditionally had smaller wrestlers in comparison.
[x]Devastation Incorporated was the heel stable that was managed by Skandor Akbar.
[xi]The Oklahoma Stampede was Steve Williams’ finisher which was a powerslam preceded by a run in a slam position to the turnbuckle
[xii]“Marriage” in wrestling, means that two opponents were booked against each other on a regular basis.
[xiii]I have heard that often from my friend, Chavo Guerrero Sr.; or as he says “seen one, seen them all”.
[xiv]Watts would sell his territory to the NWA, and “merge” with them, though it was unknown to his wrestlers at the time.
[xv]This isn’t a metaphor; this was about actually lacing up boots.
[xvi]Sting and the Ultimate Warrior were a tag team called the Blade Runners that got their start working for Bill Watts. The Warrior left for World Class in Texas.
[xvii]Rhodes was the booker of the NWA at the time
[xviii]Brown was an icon in Central States Wrestling.
[xix]This was the Samoan incarnation of Samu and Fatu.
[xx]Fritz Von Erich was the owner of WCCW. The World Class area was drawing huge a few years previous with Fritz’s sons.
[xxi]This would have been in the early 90’s.
[xxii]This is in reference to the Global Wrestling Federation which was based in Dallas. They had a brief contract with ESPN.
[xxiii]Albright was a star in Japan, but never achieved mainstream success in North America; of course, he never seemed to try.
[xxiv]The UWFI was a shoot style promotion which was a precursor to UFC, but the match results were still pre-determined.
[xxv]Gaijins is the word for foreigner in Japanese
[xxvi]As if this writing, Scott Hall has been doing very well, and credits a lot of that to Diamond Dallas Page. Hopefully, this continues.
[xxvii]Ribera’s is a steak house in Tokyo where wrestlers frequent. It is considered a badge of honor for an American wrestler to set foot in Ribera’s and get once of their famous jackets. It is definitely a “wrestling” thing!
[xxviii]This was Bagwell’s gimmick in the GWF where he wrestled alongside Cox.
[xxix]The Sportatorium was the facility that was the home base of the GWF and previously World Class in Dallas.
Steve may have also been one of the funniest people I have had the pleasure to talk to. As i listened back to his stories in his distinctive Midwestern drawl, the amount of times I found myself bursting out laughing eclipsed any other interview I have ever done.[i]
I found the timing to be perfect. Currently, the WWE is promoting a Mid-South wrestling DVD, and though Cox did not officially compete there, he was there in final portion of Mid-South’s finale, the UWF. Cox may not have been the biggest name in the business, but he did compete against and befriend those who were. He also was an amateur wrestler who would later compete in the early shoot promotions in Japan, which itself would foreshadow the Mixed Martial Arts that has become popular now. With special thanks to our mutual friend, Chavo Guerrero Sr., I hope you enjoy the transcript of my chat with Steve Cox.
You had a great football career at the University of Tulsa, correct?
“I grew up out in the middle of nowhere, three miles across into Kansas, and I was a real good Linebacker and wrestler and I got a full ride scholarship to Tulsa University. That’s how I got there.”
This took you to the USFL right?
“Yeah, I got out of school and then I got drafted.[ii] I was signed by the New Jersey Generals and was there when Herschel Walker came in. I am going to show my age, but this was back when ESPN was showing us and we were a bunch of lunkheads wondering who would watch 24 hours of sports. This was the early days of (Chris) Berman. Chuck Fairbanks was our Coach.[iii]
I was traded from to the Michigan Panthers[iv] so I went from Hackensack, New Jersey to Pontiac, Michigan and Jim Stanley was our coach. He was one of the original guys who went off with Bear Bryant at Texas A&M. He was a real hardcore coach. Anyway, I was getting beat up pretty badly, and I decided to get out (of Football).”
You mentioned that you were an amateur wrestler in school. Were you a fan of pro wrestling when you were growing up?
Heck no! Now I grew up in Kansas, so I was familiar with Bob Geigel and Harley Race and all those guys. Every now and then we caught a glimpse of the old WWF out of New York. But as a collegiate wrestler, though this has changed since Kurt Angle, a lot of the “real” wrestlers didn’t appreciate “fake” wrestling.
As I got out of the USFL, and back in the day there weren’t a lot of gyms, and I always went to Moguin’s Gym by TU (Tulsa University). When the wrestlers came through, that’s where they worked out. I was actually talking to of all people, Sting[v] and he asked me if I ever thought about being a pro wrestler, and I said ‘not really’. That weekend there was an article in the paper about the UWF, Bill Watts and the Rock and Roll Express and how they had a sold out crowd downtown. The guy who owned the gym was a friend of Bill Watts and he called him up and I met Bill Watts.[vi]
I didn’t realize at the time what Bill was all about. He asked me if I had (wrestling) boots and I said no. He said I had no possibility in hell until I go t some boots as he couldn’t get me in the ring and do much with me. He said, stay and watch the show, and they did TV every Sunday night in Tulsa and that place was sold out like lightning.
I got some boots in this place out of Arkansas. Back in the day, there weren’t too many places you could buy (wrestling) boots unlike now where you can buy them all over the place. Anyway, I got my boots and I got my trunks and I got a call that he wanted me at the arena at four o’clock, which was pretty early because they started at seven. I get there, and he (Watts) says suit up, and I go out to the ring. We’re in the middle of the ring and Watts says ‘Hit the ropes’, and I’m running back and forth hitting the ropes. He said ‘Drop down, hit the ropes. Drop down, hit the ropes’, then he says be at my house, which was near Tulsa at two o’clock Sunday.
I got to his house and we drove to Miami, Oklahoma and we go to this armory and he said you’re going to wrestle tonight. I’m like ‘Oh Shit, I’m not planning on it!’, but I get to the arena and there is Terry Taylor, Rick Steiner, Doc (Steve Williams) and my first match is with Mike George.
It was a small armory, but this place was packed to the ceiling with people. I go out there and Mike George[vii] is my first match and Tommy Gilbert is the referee. I should have known from the first match when I went over that I was being brought in as Dr. Death’s protégé, but I had never took a bump. Mike was slamming me, giving me boots, but Tommy was getting in my ear that ‘we have a superstar here!’ I couldn’t even breathe during the match! Mike did the deal where I grabbed the ropes and he falls back and then 123 kick and I take a powder and I am beat to shit.
After, Terry Taylor says ‘Now why would Watts want a jabroni[viii] to get ahead?’ you know what I’m saying? They’re all inquisitive and watching ‘cause Watts liked big men. That’s why he used to crack on the Memphis territory, and how you had to put over midgets[ix]. Watts wanted you to understand that you had to bump for the right people at the right time.
That night, there was (Skandor) Akbar from Devastation Incorporated[x] , The One Man Gang, Eli the Eliminator and Bill said to me that I can’t to a Stampede run[xi] which was Doc’s finisher so I was told to do a Side Russian Leg Sweep for my finish. I think Bill Irwin came up with that. The deal that night was that I would go watch Doc have a match with Mike George which was a technical match. Doc goes over and Devastation runs in, and I jump in. Now, I don’t know shit about the business, that’s how green I was. After that, every night I was working and every night I was getting killed in the ring. I was getting crowbarred, the old school way. There wasn’t a lot of wrestling schools; that was my school, right there.
They came up with an angle where I would be the Rookie of the Year. My first marriage[xii] was really against Gary Young. He really cleaned me up pretty good. Every night we did the same match, but it was always different. I don’t know if you heard some of the boys say this, but (Ric) Flair’s match was always the same but they are always different.[xiii] The boys knew how to tell the difference.
At the time I was fortunate enough to run around with the top guys and I kept my mouth shut, and I learned a lot. I had my first ever squash match, I put over Bubba (Rogers) real good; Watts loved that; which helped Doc when he went in to help. The thing about Watts is that he told me a lot of stuff that didn’t make sense at the time, but it helped me later on to see the business as not just as worker but as a promoter.”
Did you get some heat with the boys because you came in with a decent position, especially since you did not have a professional wrestling background?
“Oh yeah. I was brought in, green as green could be and at the time Bill Watts was negotiating with the NWA[xiv] . We were working tight every night. Now when they would come at me, and I’m not the sharpest guy on the stick but when we got to a certain point, I was like ‘Fuck You’, and I would stand up (for myself). Like I said, I was a real good High School athlete, I wrestled, I played Football, I could slow them down. But I had to respect the fact I was crowbarred in, and it wasn’t easy for them to take that. I understood. Nowadays (aspiring wrestlers) go to school; real boy band shit. In my day it wasn’t that way. You had to be one mean, tough son of a bitch to get through this shit! Staring out the way I was (with a good spot), it just wasn’t done that way.
I remember Terry Taylor, he had to lace up my boots[xv] . Terry said ‘Look at this fucking guy!’. It was hilarious. Chavo (Guerrero Sr.) of all people showed me how to tuck in my laces. That’s how bad I was, I didn’t know how to lace up boots. These guys would thump me pretty good, because I couldn’t lace up boots. If I couldn’t do that, why would they want give me anything (in the ring)? “
Was there anyone who took you under their wing when you were starting out?
Yeah, Chavo. He was the most consummate worker, he understands the business, and he grew up in the business. Everything he did (in the ring) had meaning. He was the total package, and he was one hell of a partier! Sometimes he would go too far out there, and you would have to reel him back in, but that was Chavo!
I had Gary Young, I had Doc, and Terry Gordy. I would ask them to watch my matches and have them critique it. This is another way that Watts helped me; he said when they tell you what to do, don’t say ‘Yeah, but’. They don’t care what you’re thinking. Listen to what they’re telling you. They will check to see if you listened, and from there you will get more information.
I just lived, learned and watched. I rode with everyone from Flair, Arn Anderson and really everyone. You have to realize that in my first year to two years in the business I had almost five hundred matches. I was dong singles and tags often on the same card, and as a new guy that was the norm.
One night, me and Sting after (Ultimate) Warrior left[xvi] I pained my face and worked with him as his partner against (Rick) Steiner and somebody else. Jeff Gaylord, I think. Think about it, these indy kids nowadays wouldn’t be working with the best in the business in their first five hundred matches. That doesn’t happen anymore. The work was tough. We weren’t just suspending disbelief, we were really tough. In time, I could work 60’s style, 70’s style, 80’s style, 90’s style, Bullrope Match, two minute match, six minute match; whatever.
The most important match is the opening match. A lot of green guys don’t even know that. The opener sets the tempo and the crowd. It is not an easy match, usually fifteen minutes and a time limit draw; a lot of false finishes. These kids today don’t know; you don’t get that anymore.”
You were there when the NWA merged with the UWF. Chavo Guerrero told me that he didn’t see it coming, and that it was a surprise to him. Was it a surprise to you also?
“A lot of people thought something was up. Now I didn’t really, because I was just happy to be in the same locker room as these guys, but it goes back to what Bill always said which is ‘negotiate your own contract’. Now that was his territory, and he gave us ‘We’re all in this together’ speech about generating synergy (between the two organizations). Well, he dropped the bottom out and he skated out, and we didn’t get much out of that deal. There were a lot of guys hot.”
Where did you go after that (the NWA UWF Merger)? Did you go to the NWA?
“The deal was that Dusty Rhodes[xvii] was the one who called me and told me I wasn’t needed anymore. I needed a break as my body was beat to shit. I got a call from (Bob) Geigel, and I just wanted to work with “Bulldog” Bob Brown[xviii], so I asked if Bulldog was still there. I wanted to work there just to get my picture taken with Brown and send it to my roommate from College who was from Kansas City and was a big Bulldog Bob Brown fan.
I went up there, and anytime you walk into the territories, they might know you, they might not. TV coverage wasn’t that national yet. I remember I worked a match with Mike Golden. I didn’t know much about Mike and how great he was until we got in the ring. As soon as we tied up after two minutes I was like ‘Let’s get it on’ and we had a good match. I worked for about a week up there.
Then I get a call from the same place that ran the office side for the UWF and they told me that WCCW is coming in and I was asked if I wanted to tag up with Michael Hayes going up against the Samoans[xix] , but you got to lose. I’m told them I’m there.”
You were brought in as Michael Hayes’ protégé, were you not?
“It kind of worked out that way. Really, they wanted (Jimmy) Garvin, but Garvin and Michael couldn’t hold up the way the Samoans worked. It was only supposed to be one match, but the Samoans loved me. Anyway, I get a call from Pritchard down there, asking me if I could be there for Friday. It was funny, because Michael really pushed for Garvin, but the office was like nope, and they liked the big, blonde Texas style wrestler, you know what I’m saying?
I go down there, and this is where I first met Fritz (Von Erich)[xx] . They were trying to negotiate with me, but I already had a deal in hand with Kansas City but it was a good deal to down to Texas. I signed a contract, though it took a while as we kept going back and forth and I finally said ‘I’m out of here’, and he said, ‘Hey, hold on’, and we hammered it out. That was the first time I met Fritz, though I had no fucking clue who Fritz was. We shook hands, and I never worried once about my paycheck. I was now working with Michael against the Samoans and we had one of the top tag team programs in the United States. It was a real good time.”
You did a few shots with the AWA, did you not?
“Oh yeah, but that was all tied in. By that time, everything was crumbling. What happened was, I talked to the guys in Atlanta[xxi] , and they were like ‘You don’t want to come here!’ Usually, I give people the benefit of the doubt but if there is one person in life and literally I would do this for the boys, I would KO Eric Bischoff. I knew some guys there. The Steiners, Buff was there and Steve Austin. Hell, I’m the one who told (Austin) to go to Texas! Of all the people one night, he asked me to watch his match over in Memphis. I was kind of impressed that this kid wanted me to watch his match. I said the first thing you got to do is change the name from Steve Williams. He said to me, ‘There is another Steve Williams?’ I swear to God, he said that! I started to laugh thinking that this fucker was as dumb as I was! In the business, I was probably the dumbest son of a bitch to come in, and I wear that proudly because I humble myself to the fact that I was one dumb son of a bitch. He asked what name I should have, and I said do the porno shit, where you take the first name of your first pet, and the last name is the street you grew up on. As everything was falling apart (The territory system in American Wrestling), I was doing a lot in Japan.
Which promotion in Japan?
The UWFI and New Japan. I was also with another upstart shoot promotion. Doc got me over there. It was good money; I was making $2,500 a week there. I didn’t do a lot of indy shows around Tulsa, but I did do them all over the Midwest. I even did some in Philadelphia before ECW started. I worked a lot with Mankind (Mick Foley), before he was Mankind. I remember the 1-2-3 Kid coming in[xxii] , I did a lot with Shane (Douglas) back East and did Europe too. I got to see a lot of Europe with Shane, and we tagged up a bunch. I like the way that Shane kind of morphed into that “Franchise” character.
Actually, I would like to talk to you more about Japan.
Let me break it all down. All-Japan had a death grip on that whole market over there, and a lot of guys were starting to do their own shows. You know Gary Albright?[xxiii] ”
Yes.
“Gary Albright and the Shoot promotion over there.”[xxiv]
Was that a more fitting style for you?
“I suplexed the hell out of those people! But, I had to take some serious shots there, but the money was so good. It was funny, I was working with one group, and there was a lot of cross promotion. I remember at the Tokyo Dome, when (The Great) Muta showed up, and I was drunk as shit. I knew Muta, as his first American tour was in WCCW with us. I worked a bunch with Muta. They were pretty prejudiced towards us gaijins[xxv] , but yeah, I bounced around and worked with five different groups over there. I did a lot of submission style wrestling there. I also did a lot of boxing and pad up with linemen’s gloves. Yeah, it was rough.
In Japan, I slowly started stepping over into the real world. I got a call from New York (The WWF) and at the time they were getting their ass kicked by Atlanta. In today’s world you wouldn’t think about it. The money (in the WWE) is so good, but they run your ass ragged in the ground. That’s why all these guys flamed out, suicide but for three million dollars and 250 days on the road, you just shut the fuck up and do it.”
What made you want to leave wrestling?
“I was in Iowa, and I saw a father and son fight over cocaine in the locker room, I thought do I want to have that conversation with my son? None of these guys had good relationships with their kids until much later when they begin to understand. I made up my mind that I would try coaching football. I wouldn’t make as much money, but I would have a better life. I didn’t get out clean, as I had to go to rehab but overall I did transition well (out of wrestling) when it is all said and done. I was a onetime rehab guy, and I have been clean and sober ever since.”
So you were able to put wrestling behind you. That in itself is a success story as many other former wrestlers have not been able to do that. I am thinking of an example where Diamond Dallas Page is trying to get Jake “The Snake” Roberts recovered, and one of the constant threads in the videos he has put out is that if he fails he won’t be able to get a slot at the Royal Rumble. This is the carrot that Jake seems to need to be motivated. One more pop from the crowd. Let’s say he does get that appearance, and then what will be his motivation? What does he do next?
“Oh, I’m telling ya! Bill Watts told me never to wind up in a cage where people are throwing crumbs at you. That’s where Jake and some of these other guys are at tight now. I think Chavo’s a lot like this too; I think I am a renaissance man. I have been a business owner, a teacher, a coach, I have done sales, and I was in College. I didn’t do the best, but I got a degree. I always told my son, that you can do anything you want to do as long as you harness yourself. You learn as much you can and then make it your own, and then you can do as well as they have done. I have had a lot of different careers.
When I look at Scott Hall[xxvi] , I think ‘God Damn’. You want to hand him a pistol and just say ‘Go ahead and shoot yourself and get it over with’. That sounds really crass, but at some point you have to fight for your life. They will tell you (in rehab) that is not your fault, but fuck that. I got in trouble, because I partied too much, and that was my fault. They kept telling me why I failed, and they coddled it. What really helped me a bunch was dealing with a bunch of old-time drunks.
I’ll tell you the thing I miss about the wrestling business is that I didn’t wrestle in New York. I never went against (Hulk) Hogan, but I have been with everyone from Harley Race, Ric Flair, the Andersons; I had a good run.”
Steve, I always like to close with a bit of word association. I will mention a wrestler and just tell me what word comes to mind, or if something triggers, feel free to expand.
“Alright.”
Eddie Gilbert
“Genius. A great booker, and he did some great angles. He was humble. It wasn’t about him, it was about the book.”
Rick Steiner
“Goofy. Craziest guy I have ever been around in my life. A great consummate worker.”
Kerry Von Erich
“I’ve never seen anybody, and I’ve been a lot of places, I have never seen anybody radiate a room like he could. He just had it. Kerry walked in, and they knew he was a somebody. They might not know who, but they knew he was a somebody.”
The One Man Gang
“Scariest son of a bitch I ever saw. When I first saw him, he spits at me but misses out of politeness. A great big teddy bear of a guy”
Kamala
“Great match. I did some big time spots with him. What a great guy to work with. I loved working with Kamala.”
I think you were there when he started his career, Booker T.
“Yeah. Booker and his brother. When they came in, and don’t get me you wrong, you got to have a lot of swag, you know what I’m saying? I was really surprised he made it has high but I’m not. He was always learning, he picked up his craft quick. He went from a loud thug to someone who mastered his craft. He and Stevie. I liked him. Tag matches; people don’t’ realize what an art form tag team wrestling is. It’s a whole different part of the business that you have to learn. We actually crossed paths more in Japan then we did over here. It was funny, you would go to Ribera’s[xxvii] and that’s how you would find out who all is in the country. In the business, nobody ever says goodbye, they’ll say see you down the road. In that line of work, that’s a fact. You’ll cross paths somewhere.”
The 1-2-3 Kid
“He just got to Texas, and he was already trained well, by the Harts I believe. I’m sitting there looking at this little shit, thinking who the fuck is this guy in his little blue outfit? (Laughs) I made a mistake one time, the first time I saw Jeff Jarrett in Memphis in the locker room and I said (aloud) ‘Who the fuck is he related to?’ (laughs) The boys laughed, but I had a real good match with Jeff.
He (The Kid) comes up to me and says we have a match tonight and that we are going fifteen minutes and asks what are we going to do. Now when you are someone new and you come into someone else’s territory you don’t do shit like that. You should be asking what kind of match will we have tonight, and the veteran will take care of you.
Anyway, I told him to come off the top rope and get as much height as you can, and I’ll catch you. Anyway, I move out of the way and he hits as hard as hell. You should have seen the look on his face on the way by! I just started beating the shit out of him and putting the boots to him. He was gone the next day; he wasn’t made for Texas. I think the only reason he got where he did was, was that he was a funny mother fucker, that’s what I heard.”
I think you wrestled him a bit, Stan Lane.
“I think they are replaying a bit of this on ESPN Classics. I was a Midnight Express also. We worked an angle with Bobby (Eaton) Stan and me, and Bobby was out. Lane was just a funny mother fucker. I was plugged into a lot of tags, and I became as good as anybody.
You’ll get a kick out of this. The boys would say you see a room with a revolving door; Steve has that gimmick quarantined! Tag teaming was an art, you had to know when to have the referee cut off, work the hot tags; remember you have five people out there working! If you’ve never done that it can scare you.”
I have a few more for you, Doug Gilbert.
“You took care of him, because he was Eddie Gilbert’s little brother. I liked Doug, but he was no Eddie. He’s still out there working. You could slide him in, no harm, no foul.”
One more for you; Buff Bagwell.
“I knew him as the “Handsome Stranger”[xxviii] . (Skandor) Akbar had him kiss all the girls in the front row. He was just a pretty boy, and when he popped up like he did in Atlanta, I have to give him props.
You got to realize, I hung out with (Bruiser) Brody, Doc, Albright; I wasn’t used to hanging out with a guy like Buff! Guys like that…..Yeah, he was Buff out there (in the ring) but in here (locker room) you’re just a paper tiger. That was like Hogan, but again, props to Hogan, nobody could draw like he could. But, yeah, Buff as the Handsome Stranger did well at the Sportatorium[xxix] out there on “Skank Row”.”
One final question, do you watch wrestling now?
“I do, when I can. Now CM Punk and John Cena, you’ve got to me kidding me. Is this the best you got? Don’t get me wrong, but if this is the best you got, but these guys ain’t Brody. These guys would get destroyed in my day. When you watch the work today, it’s so light. It’s too make believe; too much entertainment. In my day, you believed you were getting your ass kicked, because you actually were.”
Thanks Steve!
[i]And I am only talking about what I can print!
[ii]Cox was selected in the 16th Round in 1983
[iii]Fairbanks was a successful collegiate coach who won the Orange Bowl and two Sugar Bowls with Oklahoma. The job with New Jersey would be his last as a coach in football.
[iv]Michigan was the inaugural USFL Champions.
[v]Sting’s first big break was in the UWF territory which had a large base in Oklahoma
[vi]Watts was the owner of the UWF, and notoriously known for his toughness.
[vii]George was a journeyman wrestler who held multiple regional championships in the United States but was an underneath worker at this stage of his career.
[viii]“Jabroni” is slang for someone who does the “job” in the ring. Basically; the one who loses on a regular basis.
[ix]The Memphis territory traditionally had smaller wrestlers in comparison.
[x]Devastation Incorporated was the heel stable that was managed by Skandor Akbar.
[xi]The Oklahoma Stampede was Steve Williams’ finisher which was a powerslam preceded by a run in a slam position to the turnbuckle
[xii]“Marriage” in wrestling, means that two opponents were booked against each other on a regular basis.
[xiii]I have heard that often from my friend, Chavo Guerrero Sr.; or as he says “seen one, seen them all”.
[xiv]Watts would sell his territory to the NWA, and “merge” with them, though it was unknown to his wrestlers at the time.
[xv]This isn’t a metaphor; this was about actually lacing up boots.
[xvi]Sting and the Ultimate Warrior were a tag team called the Blade Runners that got their start working for Bill Watts. The Warrior left for World Class in Texas.
[xvii]Rhodes was the booker of the NWA at the time
[xviii]Brown was an icon in Central States Wrestling.
[xix]This was the Samoan incarnation of Samu and Fatu.
[xx]Fritz Von Erich was the owner of WCCW. The World Class area was drawing huge a few years previous with Fritz’s sons.
[xxi]This would have been in the early 90’s.
[xxii]This is in reference to the Global Wrestling Federation which was based in Dallas. They had a brief contract with ESPN.
[xxiii]Albright was a star in Japan, but never achieved mainstream success in North America; of course, he never seemed to try.
[xxiv]The UWFI was a shoot style promotion which was a precursor to UFC, but the match results were still pre-determined.
[xxv]Gaijins is the word for foreigner in Japanese
[xxvi]As if this writing, Scott Hall has been doing very well, and credits a lot of that to Diamond Dallas Page. Hopefully, this continues.
[xxvii]Ribera’s is a steak house in Tokyo where wrestlers frequent. It is considered a badge of honor for an American wrestler to set foot in Ribera’s and get once of their famous jackets. It is definitely a “wrestling” thing!
[xxviii]This was Bagwell’s gimmick in the GWF where he wrestled alongside Cox.
[xxix]The Sportatorium was the facility that was the home base of the GWF and previously World Class in Dallas.
Interview with B. Brian Blair
Feb 05, 2013
Published in
Interviews
Often in our cynical society, when many think of former athletes, be it from Football, Basketball or the now named, ‘Sports Entertainment’ world of Professional Wrestlers, they might expect them to be down on their luck. Pop Culture and the media in general have given us numerous examples of this, as weekly we can count on a story where a former All Star is reported to be broke, always with the exclamation point at the end of the article/piece detailing how much he made in his career. ESPN’s acclaimed 30 for 30 series, had a highly rated episode entitled “Broke”, which as the same suggested detailed the financial free fall of many athletes who candidly spoke of their mistakes. Sports news outlets spend the same amount of time looking for negative as they do extolling the great plays that happen on the field/diamond/ice etc. Bad news does draw an audience.[1]
With this expectation of broke athletes, performance enhancing drugs and brain damage due to concussions, we often forget about those who left their sport behind to successfully achieve careers outside the athletic landscape. A lot of them are out there; though too often we choose not to look for them…good news doesn’t sell.
Regardless of what your views are on Professional Wrestling, the parallel with former mainstream athletes is unquestionable. In 2008, the Mickey Rourke film, The Wrestler, was praised not only as a motion picture, but by wrestlers for an accurate portrayal of what life was like on the wrestling scene. However, the movie did not show the wrestlers who were able to save their money and find success in other lines of work. Perhaps this is why I sought out former WWF Superstar, B. Brian Blair who not only ascended to great heights in the world’s largest wrestling organization, but did so in the business and political sector as well.
Brian Blair was born in Gary, Indiana and despite the look of a white middle class male that he may have appeared to be embody in the ring, he did not grow up in a rich household by any stretch of the imagination. By the time he was in his mid-teens, he was already on his own, working multiple jobs, yet still attending high school. A natural athlete, Blair played football and was good enough to be recruited by the University of Louisville, where he received a scholarship. Although athletics was his passion, Brian already had a long term vision graduating with a Business and Political Science degree, though before he would implement those skills, the world of wrestling had called.
B. Brian Blair may mostly be known for his days in the then named, World Wrestling Federation, but he had an extensive career for six years in various regional territories before performing exclusively for Vince McMahon Jr.. He had a very good run in the Florida territory of the NWA where he was their Heavyweight Champion twice in the 1980’s. Although the region was not as healthy as it was in the previous decade, it was still one of the most respected in the United States and the championship belt had a lineage dating back to the 1930’s.[2]
Blair joined the World Wrestling Federation in late 1984 at the onset of what was to be a National explosion. After a singles run (highlighted by a series of brilliant matches with “Mr. Wonderful” Paul Orndorff) Blair was paired with “Jumping” Jim Brunzell[3] who had just entered the WWF after departing from the Minneapolis based American Wrestling Association[4].
Dubbed “The Killer Bees” Blair and Brunzell entered the highest profile spots in their careers. Not only was the wrestling business (and the WWF in particular) reaching a stratospheric level, but the mid to late 80’s are arguably the greatest period that the organization had in terms of tag teams. Aside from the Bees, this period featured the innovative British Bulldogs, The Hart Foundation, and Demolition. Even when teams were thrown together, (like the Dream Team and Strike Force[5]) they were presented as valuable entities that performed and acted like they were meant to be together. Tag teams were often the main event of star studded cards that the WWF had in this era, and these matches were often the best on the show.
Although the Bees did not win the Tag Team Championship in the WWF, they left behind a legacy of solid matches in their three and a half year run. Frustrated with the failed promises by management of a Tag Team Title run[6], Blair left the World Wrestling Federation and appeared in various independent promotions and in Japan. Simultaneously, he put his business knowledge to work and became successful as a licensee of Gold’s Gym in Florida, and would later successfully become the County Commissioner in Hillsborough County (also in Florida).
We here at notinhalloffame.com had the opportunity to speak with Brian candidly about his wrestling career, his transition away from it and what he is up to now.
I know that when a lot of people speak with you they want to address you they immediately want to talk about your wrestling career, however I wanted to talk to you first about your post wrestling career. A few years ago, the movie, “The Wrestler” came out and it did not exactly depict wrestlers in the greatest glory. Many of them have fallen on hard times, as have had many past NFL and NBA players. I believe that a study came out that said that over half of former NBA players go bankrupt. You obviously had a plan early on while you were still on top. I am curious if there was a moment in your career that triggered an exit strategy away from wrestling?
“Well, it started very early in life actually. I was about twenty-five years old and I read a book that was called “The Richest Man in Babylon”. The main premise of the story was saving ten percent; basically paying yourself first. It is the same idea as the ten percent to a church or a savings account, just a little more disciplined because you make it your very first bill.
I knew I wanted to something in business and I really wasn’t sure what it would be. I was wrestling and in the gym all the time. I always worked out, I still work out and in talking about that exit strategy, I started looking at the health club industry and I happened to have a friend named Pete Grymkowski who was the majority owner of Gold’s Gym.
I decided to give the Gold’s Gyms a shot. We built one in 1989 and I was actually still wrestling. I had left the WWF, but I still had a deal in Japan. I wound up owning the rights to eight of them and if you dial 1-800-99GOLDS anywhere in the country I developed that whole system. I developed it locally with fourteen clubs and sold it to Gold’s Corporate, and I sold my business when it wasn’t for sale, which is a good thing. I guess the rumour was that Gold’s Gyms was going public and I got a few calls about selling my clubs and that wound up being so in 2000 to the highest bidder. So my exit strategy was successful and I’m grateful that I had that book, because I probably wouldn’t have had enough money. In wrestling it isn’t how much you make, but how much you save. Unfortunately, so many people in the wrestling industry spend $1,000 on $100 show, so to speak as Hank Williams would sing, or maybe Hank Williams Jr.”
I never got past the Tear in my Beer song!
“What’s that?”
Sorry, going for a joke. Not always as funny up here in Canada!
“I love Canada. Mr. T was our manager for a while and when we were in Toronto at Maple Leaf Gardens and I remember selling out the place when I was one of the Killer Bees.”
Actually, I remember being there (Maple Leaf Gardens) when you and Jim (Brunzell) won the Frank Tunney Tag Team Tournament[7].
“Wow”
I remember how you worked four matches on the card, and how the people were still popping for everything that you and Jim did.
“I appreciate that. Those were some fun days. I actually still wrestle. I will be in Atlantic City March 2nd and in Las Vegas April 16th.”
Is that for the Cauliflower Alley Club?
“Yes.”
Now your foray into politics; you were a Political Science major right?
“Yes, I was a Poli-Sci major, and I really started to get into politics when Jesse Ventura and I were together for six months.”
When were you together with Jesse?
“In the Kansas City territiory. We talked about it often.”
So politics was always on your radar?
“I liked politics, but I never thought I would become a politician. Politics as it turned out is way more brutal than wrestling especially if you’re a Conservative. It’s a full contact sport; they try to knock you out. If you don’t do what the newspapers want you to do, especially in Hillsborough County[8], which is a very corrupt county, they will tar and feather you.”
I was going to ask you before, I would have thought that a career in wrestling with all the politics that are involved in that industry that a transition to politics would have been easier.
“Yeah it is. It is far more of a mental beating than the physical one you take in wrestling.”
So you’re happier now being in the business sector as opposed to politics?
“Yes. Yes I am. Although I do miss it sometimes. When I see some of the foolish things from these politicians that don’t have a business background, and that’s what wrong with our nation today”
So do you view yourself more of a Libertarian?
“No, I view myself more as Conservative Libertarian. I do have some fundamental beliefs. I do believe that we should take care of those who can not take care of themselves, but I do believe that we have no obligation to take care of those who will not (take care of themselves)”
Understood. I am curious though, are you known more in Florida for wrestling or politics? I think a lot of wrestling fans are unaware of what happened outside the WWE or the then named WWF, but you had a very good run in the Florida territory where you were a star in were its champion.
“I get recognized probably more as a wrestler.”
Really?
“Yes.”
I would have thought it would have been the other way now.
“I think it’s because where I’m at. When I go to general places, wrestling is always the first thing mentioned.”
Does that bother you, or are you still flattered by the fact that so many fans still remember?
“No. I love the wrestling fans. I always have and I always will.”
I have studied some of the other interviews that you have done and noticed that you mention consistently that Paul Orndorff was one of your favourite opponents. Were there other singles opponents that you had where you felt you had great matches be it in the WWF or other territories that stand out in your mind?
“Ravishing Rick Rude in Florida. Jesse Barr in Florida.”
I actually watched those matches you had with Orndorff and got me wondering how come you never had a singles push in the WWF the same way you had in Florida.
“I don’t know. I did wrestle there (the WWF) as a singles competitor and a lot in Florida. I got a call when I was in Florida to come in to the WWF, and I was hoping to do so as it was becoming the big thing from Hulk Hogan. Hogan gave me a call to bring me in. Terry was also one of the ushers at my wedding along with Paul Orndorff.”
Oh, I didn’t know that!
“Yeah, I’ve never really shared that publically. He (Hogan) was in the AWA with Verne Gagne and he knew Jim Brunzell who was one half of the High Flyers with Greg Gagne. Jimmy had called Terry trying to get away (from the AWA) and Jimmy said he wanted a tag team partner. Terry thought about me for that role and we were put together. We were in Brantford (where the WWF held regular TV Tapings) which was the first time that Jimmy and met up. George Scott was the booker and said we are going tag you guys up and we need to think of something to call you. Now, I was a Miami Dolphins fan back from when they were undefeated in 1972, and they had a Defence called the “Killer Bees” which was based on their last names. George Scott immediately laughed and smiled and said ‘I know Vince is going to like that’. Lanny Poffo happened to be there and ironically he reached out in his bag and pulled out a pair of trunks which were basically like the same ones that we would use for years, with the yellow and black stripes.”
Wait, Poffo just happened to have these trunks on him?
“Yep, he just happened to have them in his bag! Lanny would wear all kinds of different stuff.”
I guess it was just meant to be!
“I guess it was.”
I have also read that in prior interviews that you said Vince McMahon had promised you and Jim the Tag Team Titles on three different occasions. Do you recall when they were?
“Probably six months before Wrestlemania III, and a week after we started teaming we were told we would be Tag Team champs. It kept going on and on.”
So it was basically a ‘don’t worry, we’ll take care of you’ type of deal that was just perpetual.
“Exactly. George Scott who was the booker the whole time, and I thought it would happen. When it became too much, I left but I did not burn a bridge. I don’t believe in doing that. Jimmy stayed. Vince never cared for Jimmy is what I heard and that he had some heat with him.”
Well, based on the way he was booked after you left it sure seemed like it[9].
“Yeah, exactly. Jimmy was real down with Jesse Ventura about forming a union and Vince really got pissed about that.”
Do you think there could ever be a union in wrestling?
“No. When it comes down to it, there are too many people hungry for that top spot. What Vince has done to prevent it, rather than making the wrestlers so big; and I’m not saying that names like The Rock, Hulk Hogan aren’t big names, but he (Vince McMahon) has made the brand the most important name. That makes it more difficult in my opinion for them to unionize. You would have to get eight out of ten people on board, or Vince would just replace them all.”
Now, in my opinion, 1987 The Killer Bees had two of their biggest wins in the WWF; that being the Frank Tunney Tag Team Tournament that we talked about in Toronto and being one of the surviving teams at the first Survivor Series[10]. Now on that card, the other survivors were pushed towards other things. Randy Savage who survived his match went on to continue to feud with the Honky Tonk Man over the Intercontinental Title and won the World Title six months later. Andre the Giant winning his Survivor Series Match set up his rematch with Hulk Hogan and even the Jumping Bomb Angels winning the women’s match set them up to win the Ladies Tag Team Title. The four of you (The Killer Bees & The Young Stallions) didn’t have any program of any kind after you won that big match.
“Right, and it wasn’t long after that I knew it was time to leave. My real strong feeling was that Vince was still pissed (about the union talk). Now, nothing was ever said to me about a union, but I would have been on board, because I do think it would be good for wrestlers to have one. However, I guess the cards were shown too early.”
Going back to that tag team Survivor Series Match, the Tag Team Champs at the time were Strike Force (Martel and Santana) who just won the belts and were wrestling as baby faces. I couldn’t figure out why they had two face teams win, when neither was going to put in a position to chase for the Tag Team belts, unless they were going to do a three chase for the belts which they didn’t do. Also, I don’t believe you even had much of a program with the Islanders who were the last team defeated on the heel team on the match.
“Right, and I admire your recall. The fact that we didn’t get the titles has been questioned by eight out of ten people that I speak with. I can’t think of any other reason why we didn’t get them.”
You were certainly an over team. The people responded to you and Jim, especially with your matches with the Hart Foundation.
“Yeah, our best matches were with the Hart Foundation. Bret Hart said I believe that his best tag team match was with us in Los Angeles and he was referring to I believe the match we had for Saturday Night’s Main Event”.
Yeah, you won that match. Again, that is another curious thing. You beat the Harts right before they won the Tag Team Title over the British Bulldogs, which would in my mind put you as an automatic top contender for the Titles, especially with Dynamite’s injury[11].
“Exactly, and that’s what I thought. That’s from Booking 101 and it makes perfect sense. I don’t think Vince maximized what he could have done with us. Who knows. I can second guess it all day long, but I can’t go back and I can’t change history.”
If I can though, it doesn’t take away from the fans minds what kind of team you were. A couple of years later, the Rockers never won the titles either and they are still held in high regard. In a way it is a bit of an honour as your team is always mentioned as a team that should have won the titles but didn’t. Not every team can say that.[12]
“I guess, you know I’m grateful for every match I had. I’ve lived a life that most people only dream of; belts or no belts.”
Well from football to wrestling to politics, that would be three dreams in one life.
“Yes, it is amazing when I look back and see what I have accomplished, I have so many stories. I believe I am a humble guy, and I try to be as humble as I possibly can. We’ve been to Russia and wined and dined with the crooked politicians there for a week. We’ve had Broadway style shows there; and all of this was from a tour that the Samoans[13] put together. Most people don’t realize what a career I had after the WWF. It may not have been as good as the WWF, but I went to Japan, I went to Malaysia, Singapore, Guam; I went all over the place. I’d have to sit back and look at my passport and see just how many countries I have been to. I counted around thirty when I checked on it one time. I have hung out with George Thorogood in Australia for a week.”
So if you hung out with Thorogood, did you have the bourbon, the scotch or the beer?[14]
“(Laughs) I think we had many of each! It was all a lot of fun. I met Cyndi Lauper, we did that wrestling album. It was all amazing. Hulkster got to know Willie G. Davidson, and I still have the Harley that Willie G. Davidson sold me. We were in L.A. and Willie asked me us if we wanted one at cost. Terry said ‘heck yeah’ and ordered one right away. I said ‘I was saving my money, and that I loved your motorcycles, but what is cost?’ I knew it was still a lot, but I said yes. I became friends with a guy named Tony Carlini[15] who was one of the premiere motorcycle design gurus for fixing them up and customizing them. When I got the bill it was $4,589 and they tricked it out, custom paint job, pipes, chrome and flew it here to a Harley Davidson dealer that has since closed down. I still have the receipt that says ship to T. Bollea. It retails for $10,995. That was a heck of a deal.”
That sounds amazing! I hate asking this, and I am sure you get asked this every day by wrestling fans; The Iron Sheik obviously has a major problem with you, which I can’t for the life of me figure out how it started. It seems like the most random attack. I can’t find one instance on any shoot interview that you ever did where you attack anybody[16]. It has put you in a terrible position, as you can’t psychically attack a man who is close to being crippled.
“Right. Exactly.”
Do you know why it started?
“I don’t know. I think he still had a grudge. We had a shoot where he tried to hook me and hold me down, and I got out and started stretching him and made him tap. He was always supposed to be the toughest shooter.”
Was this on a house card?
“Yeah, I think it was in Hershey, Pennsylvania. You know, most people didn’t really know about it. It just looked like part of the match. Some of the wrestlers knew about it, but that was it. It was kind of like a stroke to his ego, and it was eating at him. There was another instance where we going to Australia and Jim Brunzell and I were sitting next to JYD. It gets dark in the cabin (in the plane) and all of the sudden I smell this funny smell and I look over and JYD had smuggled some crack in the bottom of a popcorn bag, and their (JYD and Sheik) smoking crack on the airplane. I told him what an asshole he was, and I gave him a piece of my mind. That could kill a reputation. I’m sitting next to him; Brunzell’s sitting next to him and we don’t need that kind of stuff. He called me a jabroni or whatever. I never started stuff, but I would never leave something like that alone. We never fought or anything over it. It was just an embarrassing thing for me to have guys that known all over the world smoking crack on the airplane.”
If I remember right, Sheik was arrested with “Hacksaw” Jim Duggan in 1987 for possession while they were feuding[17].
“Yes, that’s right. I remember that.”
I imagine everything must seem a little surreal in a way for you. If you Google your name, the Iron Sheik comes up right away. I would think that has to burn you on some level.
“(Laughs) Yeah, I got to take it and just move forward. I don’t really care for the Sheik. I do feel sorry for him. His daughter died from an overdose, I knew his wife was going to leave him. I knew her in Georgia, and I don’t know how she put up with him. He was an abusive husband. If (Howard) Stern[18] knew things about the Sheik that a lot of people don’t know, he probably would not have had him in on. He is certainly an entertaining person, at least he was. I don’t know what he is doing now. I wish there was a fair way for me to wrestle him.”
Well, you tried to sort of broker peace when you attended the Iron Sheik’s roast. Essentially, it appeared like you tried to be the bigger man.
“Yeah, you’re right.”
I am sure that people might have criticized you for attending the event, but it was also an opportunity to see many of your friends in the business. But again, with his mobility issues, you are stuck in an awful position.[19]
“Is he still walking now?”
I don’t know, but I don’t believe he is moving particularly well.
“I know he’s having problems with his ankle. I would love to have a match with him, where he would be the manager and have an Iranian flag or something, and I would manage somebody. I don’t know, maybe Volkoff could be involved.”
You might be better off with it all in your rear view mirror. It just seems like a situation that you are better off avoiding.
“True. It’s not like it something I pursue, and it’s something I think about every day. I have basically put it behind me. It’s only in front of me when someone puts it in front of me.”
Can I do a bit of word association? I’ll just throw a few names at you of people you worked with in the past, and just say whatever comes to your mind.
“Sure, one word or a story?
Whatever sounds best. If one word sums it up, that’s good. If a story comes to mind, that’s fine too! Whatever you like!
“Ok.”
I’ll start with Nikolai Volkoff.
“(Laughs) Clumsy! But a nice guy.
The Rougeau Brothers.
“Dynamite Kid.”
That’s the first thing that comes to mind with them?
“Yeah, because when they sucker punched him.[20] Brunzell and I were there. That might have ended Dynamite’s career.
Dynamite was the next name I was going to bring up.
“I think of Japan. He was a great worker.”
Davey Boy
“He makes me smile. I wish Davey Boy could see his son Harry now. He was a jokester and a half.”
Ultimate Warrior
“Strange.”
Rick Rude
“Rick Rude was a tremendous worker, even underrated. He was a natural heel. He was very intelligent in some ways. He could keep conversations with people on the street or with kings. The guy had a command with psychology and words. I loved working with Rick Rude.”
Terry Funk
“Classic wrestler in our industry. A gentleman, a friend, probably doesn’t have an enemy in the world. He’s very well respected; everybody respects Terry. He is the nicest person I know to the fans. I emulate Terry as far as the fans go. I take my time and do whatever I can do to make the fans happy.”
Roddy Piper
“ (laughs) Patches.”
Patches?
“It’s kind of an inside story. I was telling him how I grew up and he started calling me ‘Patches’ like that country song that was kind of depressing about all the hard stuff that ‘Patches’ went through. I have to Google it. I don’t even remember all the words to it.”
I’ll have to Google[21] that. I don’t know that song.
“It’s a real tearjerker. Piper was another great guy who I had a lot of fun with. His interviews were so good on the mic that it took away from his actual wrestling skills.”
The Magnificent Muraco
“Oh gosh, Don! Muscles. A long time friend from before I was in the business. I admire him more now that I’ve got to befriend him.”
“One final one, ‘Cowboy’ Bob Orton
“Classic worker. Liked to save his money. He always questioned Vince why he didn’t get the title. He always wanted the World Title. He was just an incredible worker. He was the opposite of Piper. He wasn’t a bad talker, but Orton couldn’t talk like Piper could.”
Well, it’s hard when you are paired with Roddy, it’s got to be impossible to seem like a good mic worker.
“Well, that’s why they put them together. Where Piper couldn’t work, Orton could, and where Orton couldn’t talk, Piper would make it entertaining. Orton could work with a broomstick. I used to watch his dad work. His son, Randy is one of my favourite workers.”
So now you are the head of distribution of Celebritea. Can you tell me a bit about the product?
“Absolutely. Celebritea is an organic bottled tea. It’s considered a new age beverage. Right now, we have four flavors that are just off the charts good. We have Asian Pear, Ginger, Blueberry Acai and Pomegranate Blueberry. They are 80 calories, high in antioxidants, no GMOs, gluten free, and no sugar. If you go to our website, www.drinkcelebritea.com you can see the packaging of the product is really nice and it tastes better than it looks.
“It’s very hard to get distribution unless you’re Coca Cola or Pepsi in the new age beverage category. Nobody wants to be the first one on the block, so I had a challenge. My two partners, Steve Williams and Jeff Stone; I’m a minority shareholder, but even with a great product they couldn’t get distribution. Jeff did all the behind work, and I had the connections and the business savvy so I put a lot of my effort and connections to work and finally get in the Fresh Markets, and we will be going into Publix at the end of the month. It’s a tremendous, refreshing beverage that’s much better for you than a soda. For a couple of bucks it is very enjoyable. A lot of people mix it with vodka.”
Is there anything else you would to direct people too; be it a website or appearances?
“I will be at that Atlantic City show on March 2nd, and appearing at the Cauliflower Alley Club in April. My website is www.brianblair.com.
Thanks Brian!
With this expectation of broke athletes, performance enhancing drugs and brain damage due to concussions, we often forget about those who left their sport behind to successfully achieve careers outside the athletic landscape. A lot of them are out there; though too often we choose not to look for them…good news doesn’t sell.Regardless of what your views are on Professional Wrestling, the parallel with former mainstream athletes is unquestionable. In 2008, the Mickey Rourke film, The Wrestler, was praised not only as a motion picture, but by wrestlers for an accurate portrayal of what life was like on the wrestling scene. However, the movie did not show the wrestlers who were able to save their money and find success in other lines of work. Perhaps this is why I sought out former WWF Superstar, B. Brian Blair who not only ascended to great heights in the world’s largest wrestling organization, but did so in the business and political sector as well.
Brian Blair was born in Gary, Indiana and despite the look of a white middle class male that he may have appeared to be embody in the ring, he did not grow up in a rich household by any stretch of the imagination. By the time he was in his mid-teens, he was already on his own, working multiple jobs, yet still attending high school. A natural athlete, Blair played football and was good enough to be recruited by the University of Louisville, where he received a scholarship. Although athletics was his passion, Brian already had a long term vision graduating with a Business and Political Science degree, though before he would implement those skills, the world of wrestling had called.
B. Brian Blair may mostly be known for his days in the then named, World Wrestling Federation, but he had an extensive career for six years in various regional territories before performing exclusively for Vince McMahon Jr.. He had a very good run in the Florida territory of the NWA where he was their Heavyweight Champion twice in the 1980’s. Although the region was not as healthy as it was in the previous decade, it was still one of the most respected in the United States and the championship belt had a lineage dating back to the 1930’s.[2]
Blair joined the World Wrestling Federation in late 1984 at the onset of what was to be a National explosion. After a singles run (highlighted by a series of brilliant matches with “Mr. Wonderful” Paul Orndorff) Blair was paired with “Jumping” Jim Brunzell[3] who had just entered the WWF after departing from the Minneapolis based American Wrestling Association[4].
Dubbed “The Killer Bees” Blair and Brunzell entered the highest profile spots in their careers. Not only was the wrestling business (and the WWF in particular) reaching a stratospheric level, but the mid to late 80’s are arguably the greatest period that the organization had in terms of tag teams. Aside from the Bees, this period featured the innovative British Bulldogs, The Hart Foundation, and Demolition. Even when teams were thrown together, (like the Dream Team and Strike Force[5]) they were presented as valuable entities that performed and acted like they were meant to be together. Tag teams were often the main event of star studded cards that the WWF had in this era, and these matches were often the best on the show.
Although the Bees did not win the Tag Team Championship in the WWF, they left behind a legacy of solid matches in their three and a half year run. Frustrated with the failed promises by management of a Tag Team Title run[6], Blair left the World Wrestling Federation and appeared in various independent promotions and in Japan. Simultaneously, he put his business knowledge to work and became successful as a licensee of Gold’s Gym in Florida, and would later successfully become the County Commissioner in Hillsborough County (also in Florida).
We here at notinhalloffame.com had the opportunity to speak with Brian candidly about his wrestling career, his transition away from it and what he is up to now.
I know that when a lot of people speak with you they want to address you they immediately want to talk about your wrestling career, however I wanted to talk to you first about your post wrestling career. A few years ago, the movie, “The Wrestler” came out and it did not exactly depict wrestlers in the greatest glory. Many of them have fallen on hard times, as have had many past NFL and NBA players. I believe that a study came out that said that over half of former NBA players go bankrupt. You obviously had a plan early on while you were still on top. I am curious if there was a moment in your career that triggered an exit strategy away from wrestling?
“Well, it started very early in life actually. I was about twenty-five years old and I read a book that was called “The Richest Man in Babylon”. The main premise of the story was saving ten percent; basically paying yourself first. It is the same idea as the ten percent to a church or a savings account, just a little more disciplined because you make it your very first bill.
I knew I wanted to something in business and I really wasn’t sure what it would be. I was wrestling and in the gym all the time. I always worked out, I still work out and in talking about that exit strategy, I started looking at the health club industry and I happened to have a friend named Pete Grymkowski who was the majority owner of Gold’s Gym.
I decided to give the Gold’s Gyms a shot. We built one in 1989 and I was actually still wrestling. I had left the WWF, but I still had a deal in Japan. I wound up owning the rights to eight of them and if you dial 1-800-99GOLDS anywhere in the country I developed that whole system. I developed it locally with fourteen clubs and sold it to Gold’s Corporate, and I sold my business when it wasn’t for sale, which is a good thing. I guess the rumour was that Gold’s Gyms was going public and I got a few calls about selling my clubs and that wound up being so in 2000 to the highest bidder. So my exit strategy was successful and I’m grateful that I had that book, because I probably wouldn’t have had enough money. In wrestling it isn’t how much you make, but how much you save. Unfortunately, so many people in the wrestling industry spend $1,000 on $100 show, so to speak as Hank Williams would sing, or maybe Hank Williams Jr.”
I never got past the Tear in my Beer song!
“What’s that?”
Sorry, going for a joke. Not always as funny up here in Canada!
“I love Canada. Mr. T was our manager for a while and when we were in Toronto at Maple Leaf Gardens and I remember selling out the place when I was one of the Killer Bees.”
Actually, I remember being there (Maple Leaf Gardens) when you and Jim (Brunzell) won the Frank Tunney Tag Team Tournament[7].
“Wow”
I remember how you worked four matches on the card, and how the people were still popping for everything that you and Jim did.
“I appreciate that. Those were some fun days. I actually still wrestle. I will be in Atlantic City March 2nd and in Las Vegas April 16th.”
Is that for the Cauliflower Alley Club?
“Yes.”
Now your foray into politics; you were a Political Science major right?“Yes, I was a Poli-Sci major, and I really started to get into politics when Jesse Ventura and I were together for six months.”
When were you together with Jesse?
“In the Kansas City territiory. We talked about it often.”
So politics was always on your radar?
“I liked politics, but I never thought I would become a politician. Politics as it turned out is way more brutal than wrestling especially if you’re a Conservative. It’s a full contact sport; they try to knock you out. If you don’t do what the newspapers want you to do, especially in Hillsborough County[8], which is a very corrupt county, they will tar and feather you.”
I was going to ask you before, I would have thought that a career in wrestling with all the politics that are involved in that industry that a transition to politics would have been easier.
“Yeah it is. It is far more of a mental beating than the physical one you take in wrestling.”
So you’re happier now being in the business sector as opposed to politics?
“Yes. Yes I am. Although I do miss it sometimes. When I see some of the foolish things from these politicians that don’t have a business background, and that’s what wrong with our nation today”
So do you view yourself more of a Libertarian?
“No, I view myself more as Conservative Libertarian. I do have some fundamental beliefs. I do believe that we should take care of those who can not take care of themselves, but I do believe that we have no obligation to take care of those who will not (take care of themselves)”
Understood. I am curious though, are you known more in Florida for wrestling or politics? I think a lot of wrestling fans are unaware of what happened outside the WWE or the then named WWF, but you had a very good run in the Florida territory where you were a star in were its champion.
“I get recognized probably more as a wrestler.”
Really?
“Yes.”
I would have thought it would have been the other way now.
“I think it’s because where I’m at. When I go to general places, wrestling is always the first thing mentioned.”
Does that bother you, or are you still flattered by the fact that so many fans still remember?
“No. I love the wrestling fans. I always have and I always will.”
I have studied some of the other interviews that you have done and noticed that you mention consistently that Paul Orndorff was one of your favourite opponents. Were there other singles opponents that you had where you felt you had great matches be it in the WWF or other territories that stand out in your mind?
“Ravishing Rick Rude in Florida. Jesse Barr in Florida.”
I actually watched those matches you had with Orndorff and got me wondering how come you never had a singles push in the WWF the same way you had in Florida.
“I don’t know. I did wrestle there (the WWF) as a singles competitor and a lot in Florida. I got a call when I was in Florida to come in to the WWF, and I was hoping to do so as it was becoming the big thing from Hulk Hogan. Hogan gave me a call to bring me in. Terry was also one of the ushers at my wedding along with Paul Orndorff.”
Oh, I didn’t know that!
“Yeah, I’ve never really shared that publically. He (Hogan) was in the AWA with Verne Gagne and he knew Jim Brunzell who was one half of the High Flyers with Greg Gagne. Jimmy had called Terry trying to get away (from the AWA) and Jimmy said he wanted a tag team partner. Terry thought about me for that role and we were put together. We were in Brantford (where the WWF held regular TV Tapings) which was the first time that Jimmy and met up. George Scott was the booker and said we are going tag you guys up and we need to think of something to call you. Now, I was a Miami Dolphins fan back from when they were undefeated in 1972, and they had a Defence called the “Killer Bees” which was based on their last names. George Scott immediately laughed and smiled and said ‘I know Vince is going to like that’. Lanny Poffo happened to be there and ironically he reached out in his bag and pulled out a pair of trunks which were basically like the same ones that we would use for years, with the yellow and black stripes.”
Wait, Poffo just happened to have these trunks on him?
“Yep, he just happened to have them in his bag! Lanny would wear all kinds of different stuff.”
I guess it was just meant to be!
“I guess it was.”
I have also read that in prior interviews that you said Vince McMahon had promised you and Jim the Tag Team Titles on three different occasions. Do you recall when they were?
“Probably six months before Wrestlemania III, and a week after we started teaming we were told we would be Tag Team champs. It kept going on and on.”
So it was basically a ‘don’t worry, we’ll take care of you’ type of deal that was just perpetual.
“Exactly. George Scott who was the booker the whole time, and I thought it would happen. When it became too much, I left but I did not burn a bridge. I don’t believe in doing that. Jimmy stayed. Vince never cared for Jimmy is what I heard and that he had some heat with him.”
Well, based on the way he was booked after you left it sure seemed like it[9].
“Yeah, exactly. Jimmy was real down with Jesse Ventura about forming a union and Vince really got pissed about that.”
Do you think there could ever be a union in wrestling?
“No. When it comes down to it, there are too many people hungry for that top spot. What Vince has done to prevent it, rather than making the wrestlers so big; and I’m not saying that names like The Rock, Hulk Hogan aren’t big names, but he (Vince McMahon) has made the brand the most important name. That makes it more difficult in my opinion for them to unionize. You would have to get eight out of ten people on board, or Vince would just replace them all.”
Now, in my opinion, 1987 The Killer Bees had two of their biggest wins in the WWF; that being the Frank Tunney Tag Team Tournament that we talked about in Toronto and being one of the surviving teams at the first Survivor Series[10]. Now on that card, the other survivors were pushed towards other things. Randy Savage who survived his match went on to continue to feud with the Honky Tonk Man over the Intercontinental Title and won the World Title six months later. Andre the Giant winning his Survivor Series Match set up his rematch with Hulk Hogan and even the Jumping Bomb Angels winning the women’s match set them up to win the Ladies Tag Team Title. The four of you (The Killer Bees & The Young Stallions) didn’t have any program of any kind after you won that big match. “Right, and it wasn’t long after that I knew it was time to leave. My real strong feeling was that Vince was still pissed (about the union talk). Now, nothing was ever said to me about a union, but I would have been on board, because I do think it would be good for wrestlers to have one. However, I guess the cards were shown too early.”
Going back to that tag team Survivor Series Match, the Tag Team Champs at the time were Strike Force (Martel and Santana) who just won the belts and were wrestling as baby faces. I couldn’t figure out why they had two face teams win, when neither was going to put in a position to chase for the Tag Team belts, unless they were going to do a three chase for the belts which they didn’t do. Also, I don’t believe you even had much of a program with the Islanders who were the last team defeated on the heel team on the match.
“Right, and I admire your recall. The fact that we didn’t get the titles has been questioned by eight out of ten people that I speak with. I can’t think of any other reason why we didn’t get them.”
You were certainly an over team. The people responded to you and Jim, especially with your matches with the Hart Foundation.
“Yeah, our best matches were with the Hart Foundation. Bret Hart said I believe that his best tag team match was with us in Los Angeles and he was referring to I believe the match we had for Saturday Night’s Main Event”.
Yeah, you won that match. Again, that is another curious thing. You beat the Harts right before they won the Tag Team Title over the British Bulldogs, which would in my mind put you as an automatic top contender for the Titles, especially with Dynamite’s injury[11].
“Exactly, and that’s what I thought. That’s from Booking 101 and it makes perfect sense. I don’t think Vince maximized what he could have done with us. Who knows. I can second guess it all day long, but I can’t go back and I can’t change history.”
If I can though, it doesn’t take away from the fans minds what kind of team you were. A couple of years later, the Rockers never won the titles either and they are still held in high regard. In a way it is a bit of an honour as your team is always mentioned as a team that should have won the titles but didn’t. Not every team can say that.[12]
“I guess, you know I’m grateful for every match I had. I’ve lived a life that most people only dream of; belts or no belts.”
Well from football to wrestling to politics, that would be three dreams in one life.
“Yes, it is amazing when I look back and see what I have accomplished, I have so many stories. I believe I am a humble guy, and I try to be as humble as I possibly can. We’ve been to Russia and wined and dined with the crooked politicians there for a week. We’ve had Broadway style shows there; and all of this was from a tour that the Samoans[13] put together. Most people don’t realize what a career I had after the WWF. It may not have been as good as the WWF, but I went to Japan, I went to Malaysia, Singapore, Guam; I went all over the place. I’d have to sit back and look at my passport and see just how many countries I have been to. I counted around thirty when I checked on it one time. I have hung out with George Thorogood in Australia for a week.”
So if you hung out with Thorogood, did you have the bourbon, the scotch or the beer?[14]
“(Laughs) I think we had many of each! It was all a lot of fun. I met Cyndi Lauper, we did that wrestling album. It was all amazing. Hulkster got to know Willie G. Davidson, and I still have the Harley that Willie G. Davidson sold me. We were in L.A. and Willie asked me us if we wanted one at cost. Terry said ‘heck yeah’ and ordered one right away. I said ‘I was saving my money, and that I loved your motorcycles, but what is cost?’ I knew it was still a lot, but I said yes. I became friends with a guy named Tony Carlini[15] who was one of the premiere motorcycle design gurus for fixing them up and customizing them. When I got the bill it was $4,589 and they tricked it out, custom paint job, pipes, chrome and flew it here to a Harley Davidson dealer that has since closed down. I still have the receipt that says ship to T. Bollea. It retails for $10,995. That was a heck of a deal.”
That sounds amazing! I hate asking this, and I am sure you get asked this every day by wrestling fans; The Iron Sheik obviously has a major problem with you, which I can’t for the life of me figure out how it started. It seems like the most random attack. I can’t find one instance on any shoot interview that you ever did where you attack anybody[16]. It has put you in a terrible position, as you can’t psychically attack a man who is close to being crippled.
“Right. Exactly.”
Do you know why it started?
“I don’t know. I think he still had a grudge. We had a shoot where he tried to hook me and hold me down, and I got out and started stretching him and made him tap. He was always supposed to be the toughest shooter.”
Was this on a house card?
“Yeah, I think it was in Hershey, Pennsylvania. You know, most people didn’t really know about it. It just looked like part of the match. Some of the wrestlers knew about it, but that was it. It was kind of like a stroke to his ego, and it was eating at him. There was another instance where we going to Australia and Jim Brunzell and I were sitting next to JYD. It gets dark in the cabin (in the plane) and all of the sudden I smell this funny smell and I look over and JYD had smuggled some crack in the bottom of a popcorn bag, and their (JYD and Sheik) smoking crack on the airplane. I told him what an asshole he was, and I gave him a piece of my mind. That could kill a reputation. I’m sitting next to him; Brunzell’s sitting next to him and we don’t need that kind of stuff. He called me a jabroni or whatever. I never started stuff, but I would never leave something like that alone. We never fought or anything over it. It was just an embarrassing thing for me to have guys that known all over the world smoking crack on the airplane.”
If I remember right, Sheik was arrested with “Hacksaw” Jim Duggan in 1987 for possession while they were feuding[17].
“Yes, that’s right. I remember that.”
I imagine everything must seem a little surreal in a way for you. If you Google your name, the Iron Sheik comes up right away. I would think that has to burn you on some level.
“(Laughs) Yeah, I got to take it and just move forward. I don’t really care for the Sheik. I do feel sorry for him. His daughter died from an overdose, I knew his wife was going to leave him. I knew her in Georgia, and I don’t know how she put up with him. He was an abusive husband. If (Howard) Stern[18] knew things about the Sheik that a lot of people don’t know, he probably would not have had him in on. He is certainly an entertaining person, at least he was. I don’t know what he is doing now. I wish there was a fair way for me to wrestle him.”
Well, you tried to sort of broker peace when you attended the Iron Sheik’s roast. Essentially, it appeared like you tried to be the bigger man.
“Yeah, you’re right.”
I am sure that people might have criticized you for attending the event, but it was also an opportunity to see many of your friends in the business. But again, with his mobility issues, you are stuck in an awful position.[19]
“Is he still walking now?”
I don’t know, but I don’t believe he is moving particularly well.
“I know he’s having problems with his ankle. I would love to have a match with him, where he would be the manager and have an Iranian flag or something, and I would manage somebody. I don’t know, maybe Volkoff could be involved.”
You might be better off with it all in your rear view mirror. It just seems like a situation that you are better off avoiding.
“True. It’s not like it something I pursue, and it’s something I think about every day. I have basically put it behind me. It’s only in front of me when someone puts it in front of me.”
Can I do a bit of word association? I’ll just throw a few names at you of people you worked with in the past, and just say whatever comes to your mind.
“Sure, one word or a story?
Whatever sounds best. If one word sums it up, that’s good. If a story comes to mind, that’s fine too! Whatever you like!
“Ok.”
I’ll start with Nikolai Volkoff.
“(Laughs) Clumsy! But a nice guy.
The Rougeau Brothers.
“Dynamite Kid.”
That’s the first thing that comes to mind with them?
“Yeah, because when they sucker punched him.[20] Brunzell and I were there. That might have ended Dynamite’s career.
Dynamite was the next name I was going to bring up.
“I think of Japan. He was a great worker.”
Davey Boy
“He makes me smile. I wish Davey Boy could see his son Harry now. He was a jokester and a half.”
Ultimate Warrior
“Strange.”
Rick Rude
“Rick Rude was a tremendous worker, even underrated. He was a natural heel. He was very intelligent in some ways. He could keep conversations with people on the street or with kings. The guy had a command with psychology and words. I loved working with Rick Rude.”
Terry Funk
“Classic wrestler in our industry. A gentleman, a friend, probably doesn’t have an enemy in the world. He’s very well respected; everybody respects Terry. He is the nicest person I know to the fans. I emulate Terry as far as the fans go. I take my time and do whatever I can do to make the fans happy.”
Roddy Piper
“ (laughs) Patches.”
Patches?
“It’s kind of an inside story. I was telling him how I grew up and he started calling me ‘Patches’ like that country song that was kind of depressing about all the hard stuff that ‘Patches’ went through. I have to Google it. I don’t even remember all the words to it.”
I’ll have to Google[21] that. I don’t know that song.
“It’s a real tearjerker. Piper was another great guy who I had a lot of fun with. His interviews were so good on the mic that it took away from his actual wrestling skills.”
The Magnificent Muraco
“Oh gosh, Don! Muscles. A long time friend from before I was in the business. I admire him more now that I’ve got to befriend him.”
“One final one, ‘Cowboy’ Bob Orton
“Classic worker. Liked to save his money. He always questioned Vince why he didn’t get the title. He always wanted the World Title. He was just an incredible worker. He was the opposite of Piper. He wasn’t a bad talker, but Orton couldn’t talk like Piper could.”
Well, it’s hard when you are paired with Roddy, it’s got to be impossible to seem like a good mic worker.
“Well, that’s why they put them together. Where Piper couldn’t work, Orton could, and where Orton couldn’t talk, Piper would make it entertaining. Orton could work with a broomstick. I used to watch his dad work. His son, Randy is one of my favourite workers.”
So now you are the head of distribution of Celebritea. Can you tell me a bit about the product?
“Absolutely. Celebritea is an organic bottled tea. It’s considered a new age beverage. Right now, we have four flavors that are just off the charts good. We have Asian Pear, Ginger, Blueberry Acai and Pomegranate Blueberry. They are 80 calories, high in antioxidants, no GMOs, gluten free, and no sugar. If you go to our website, www.drinkcelebritea.com you can see the packaging of the product is really nice and it tastes better than it looks.
“It’s very hard to get distribution unless you’re Coca Cola or Pepsi in the new age beverage category. Nobody wants to be the first one on the block, so I had a challenge. My two partners, Steve Williams and Jeff Stone; I’m a minority shareholder, but even with a great product they couldn’t get distribution. Jeff did all the behind work, and I had the connections and the business savvy so I put a lot of my effort and connections to work and finally get in the Fresh Markets, and we will be going into Publix at the end of the month. It’s a tremendous, refreshing beverage that’s much better for you than a soda. For a couple of bucks it is very enjoyable. A lot of people mix it with vodka.”
Is there anything else you would to direct people too; be it a website or appearances?
“I will be at that Atlantic City show on March 2nd, and appearing at the Cauliflower Alley Club in April. My website is www.brianblair.com.
Thanks Brian!
[1] CNN was on the air for eleven years before it became a regular choice for Americans for news coverage based on their coverage of the Persian Gulf War. Not exactly a story of sunshine that out them on the map.
[2] The wrestlers who held that title include Ed “Strangler” Lewis, Boris Malenko, Johnny Valentine, Jack Brisco, Dusty Rhodes, Bruiser Brody, “Superstar” Billy Graham, Ernie Ladd, Don Muraco, Dory Funk Jr., Barry Windham, Mr. Wrestling II and Kevin Sullivan. Notable names of Ron Simmons and Rick Steiner held the belt after Blair. The belt was dissolved in 1988.
[4] The AWA was a still a very viable promotion in 1985. Five years later, they were out of business.
[5] The Killer Bees are often mentioned in this glory period. They are the only ones out of those six who did not win the WWF World Tag Team Titles.
[6] Which in this era, would have been more financially lucrative as the Titles were held in high regard
[7] The Killer Bees won an eight team tournament defeating the teams of Kamala & Sika (First Round), King Kong Bundy & “Mr. Wonderful” Paul Orndorff (Second Round) and Demolition (Finals) and then fought The Hart Foundation for the WWF World Tag Team Titles all in one night
[9] Brunzell was reduced to ‘jobber’ status and rarely won a match in the duration of his WWF tenure.
[10] The Killer Bees and The Young Stallions (Paul Roma & Jim Powers) won the ten tag team elimination match in a star studded contest. Their teammates were Strike Force (Rick Martel & Tom Zenk), The British Bulldogs & The Rougeau Brothers and they were against The Hart Foundation, The Islanders, Demolition, The Bolsheviks and the New Dream Team.
[11] The Dynamite Kid suffered a severe back injury in Hamilton, ON defending the Tag belts against “Cowboy” Bob Orton & The Magnificent Muraco. Dynamite could not wrestle for a couple of months and an angle was worked where they lost the belts to the Harts where Dynamite was attacked before the match began.
[13] The Samoans being Sika & Afa (The Wild Samoans) who not only train wrestlers, but have their own promotion in Pennsylvania and put on many worldwide tours
[16] If you check shoot interviews with most wrestlers on YouTube, it almost always has that wrestler trashing one (or 1,000) other wrestlers. I looked up and down at all the interviews I could find with Blair, and there is none where he disrespects any other wrestler (other than Sheik), including the one i conducted with him.
[17] Considering that the WWF had not yet announced they were “entertainment” the two being caught together in a car with drugs was particularly embarrassing for the organization.
[18] Howard Stern started playing the Iron Sheik’s rants on his Sirius Radio Program. Sheik would eventually appear on the show and continue his rant against Blair (and other wrestlers) to a much larger audience. The Sheik would have multiple appearances on the Stern show.
[19] At the roast, Brian extended his hand to the Sheik, where he was met with a slap to his left ear. Brian was held back, while the Iron Sheik was ushered elsewhere in the building.
[20] A very good synopsis of the account can be found here: http://www.onlineworldofwrestling.com/columns/misc/ralphaeichenlaub01.html
Interview with Eddy Mansfield
Jan 18, 2013
Published in
Interviews
Controversy and Professional Wrestling has always seemed to be married to each other; whether it is in a storyline, a locker room or a court room, it appears to be an inescapable fact that the industry will be forever laced with it, regardless of the era.
In the mid 1980’s, Wrestling was poised to enter its first boom period since the 50’s. The then named Connecticut based World Wrestling Federation was beginning its push to conquer the United States by signing top talent from other regional territories and running shows across country. Under the ownership of Vince McMahon Jr., the WWF was also expanding its television into markets that under the previous unspoken rules of wrestling promoters were not be crossed. Prior to McMahon, each promoter had their region and running a show outside of that area was frowned upon. This was not the only thing that was changing in the world of professional wrestling.
In the mid 1980’s, Wrestling was poised to enter its first boom period since the 50’s. The then named Connecticut based World Wrestling Federation was beginning its push to conquer the United States by signing top talent from other regional territories and running shows across country. Under the ownership of Vince McMahon Jr., the WWF was also expanding its television into markets that under the previous unspoken rules of wrestling promoters were not be crossed. Prior to McMahon, each promoter had their region and running a show outside of that area was frowned upon. This was not the only thing that was changing in the world of professional wrestling.
Interview with Doug Palazzari, The United States Hockey Hall of Fame
Oct 31, 2012
Published in
Interviews
When people talk of U.S. Hockey, often the first image that comes to mind is the “Miracle on Ice” victory over the Soviet Union in the 1980 Olympics. The “Miracle” was not an exaggeration, as this was a time when a player had to maintain amateur status to perform their country. Although many of the American group would go on to have productive careers in the National Hockey League, none of them at this point had ever played a shift of professional hockey and to say that they were overmatched on paper against a Soviet team that was considered to be the most talented group in the world is not an understatement by any stretch.
Since that time hockey has taken an upswing in America. Granted, it is far from perfect; as it is no longer carried on ESPN and numerous NHL franchises in southern cities struggle to find a fan base in their respective cities. However, there have never been more talented American players than there are now. Internationally, the United States are a serious threat to win any championship they enter; a status that was far from true when they won in Lake Placid.
U.S. Hockey has come a long way since the 1980 Winter Olympics, and as such the United States Hockey Hall of Fame has grown along with it. Officially opening in 1973 in the small town of Eveleth in Northeastern Minnesota, the institution has created a place where young Americans who lace up the skates endeavor to finish their career.
We had the opportunity to chat with the Executive Director of the Hall, Doug Palazzari, who himself was a former seven year NHL player with the St. Louis Blues and is also an inducted member to the U.S. Hockey Hall of Fame. Doug shared with his thoughts on American hockey, its future, and the wonderful institution that he oversees.
The United States Hall of Fame is located in a very small town in Northeastern Minnesota. I know in doing my research that Eveleth appears to be a very appropriate place for the Hall with the history that took place there. Was there any pressure to put it in a larger city, such as Minneapolis, which would still allow it to be in a hockey state like Minnesota?
“Back in the late 60’s it was put out around the country for communities to bid on. Eveleth was chosen for a number of reasons, of course being its rich tradition and history in hockey. So many great players came from here, like Sam LoPresti who holds the record for the most saves in a regulation NHL game when he made eighty saves in a 3-2 loss against the Boston Bruins. In goal for Boston that night was Frank Brimsek who was also from here and he won the Vezina two times. In 1938 when the Chicago Black Hawks won the Stanley Cup, their goalie was Mike Karakas who was also from Eveleth. There is so much history here, they have had hockey here since the late 1800’s. Certainly there was great hockey in the East, and in Michigan, but Eveleth was chosen, and I think rightfully so.
There were issues later on. Some people had the notion that it would be a good idea to move the institution to a larger metropolitan area, however saner minds prevailed. We have a beautiful museum here, particularly in the summer time. We get visitors from all over the United States and Canada, and I think it is the right place. We are doing very well at the moment.”
Do you think that having it in a small town gives it a Cooperstown feel in a way?
“I think there are some things lacking in terms of Cooperstown in that we don’t have the induction ceremony here. However in terms of being a major attraction in a small rural area, yes we are very similar.”
I would like your take on this. I can argue that in the last twenty five years that no other country has improved in Hockey more than the United States; not just internationally in competition but in terms of the high talent they provide to the professional ranks. Granted, they are not on ESPN anymore, but the hockey audience in the States is a loyal one, and it has made some solid inroads in many different communities. With that said, the U.S. is one of five countries (Canada, Russia, Sweden and the Czech Republic) that can legitimately look at any competition and feel that anything other than Gold is a disappointment. How strong are the Hall’s ties to the international game? I sense that is a very strong one. What is the main relationship that you have with U.S. Hockey?
“Obviously we are very close with U.S.A. Hockey. At this point they control the induction and the ceremony. They have the committee that chooses those who are going to be enshrined. They were actually instrumental in starting this facility. Of course, our goal here is to make sure that we honor those who are inducted in the best way possible. U.S.A. Hockey is of course the national governing body for the sport, and we are hand in hand with them. The International side is very important, and we are here to sell great American hockey. We have had some wonderful success over the years, and as you said we are certainly competitive on all levels of hockey. We also recognize all the great American players in the past and the corresponding accomplishments. This includes the 1960 Gold Medal and the 1980 Gold Medal Team and the 1998 Women’s Gold Medal Team.”
I would like to touch on that last point. I believe your Hall of Fame predated the Hockey Hall of Fame in Toronto by inducting a female by inducting Cammi Granato in 2008.
“I think that was just wonderful. She is a deserving selection for the Hall of Fame. I was very proud of the committee and U.S.A. Hockey with that decision.”
I noticed that your museum puts a lot of focus on the 1980 Olympic Team. Personally speaking, I went to Lake Placid and took my wife to the site of the “Miracle on Ice”. She is an immigrant from a non-hockey playing country and I explained to her the significance of the event, and shortly thereafter the Kurt Russell film, “Miracle” came out. It is story that still resonates thirty two years later. When you are at the museum, you see many children and young adults who were not around in 1980, but are taught the historical importance of the event. Is this something that you can see lasting for generations to come?
“It’s funny how time goes by. Yes, there are kids who come in and aren’t aware of it, but most have some idea, usually from the different movies they have seen. It’s been a long time, but I think it’s going to live on even longer. What Herb Brooks and those young players did was conquer the impossible. Twenty years earlier in Squaw Valley, the team that won there has been forgotten, and that was a great accomplishment as well.”
True, but 1960 did not have Al Michaels’ signature call.
“It doesn’t get any better than that. I don’t think that call will get old to anybody who loves American Hockey.”
Well, not just American Hockey. Who doesn’t like the underdog story?
“I think there was the political climate that played into it too. You’re right, the hockey world is dialed in to that event.”
Where do you see U.S. Hockey in the future?
“I think it is very important to keep growing the game. Our game has grown substantially and many years ago it was a regional sport in Massachusetts, Michigan and Minnesota; but with the expansion of the National Hockey League and the growth of the many Minor Leagues has added a lot of growth in non-traditional hockey markets. It is become very competitive. We are getting talent from all places now. There is a lot of work that still needs to be done and new avenues that need to be explored. We have a great sport but there a lot of options for athletic youngsters in this country. We really need to find a way to make the game more affordable, and with it being such a time consuming activity, it is difficult for families where both parents work, as most households are. I think that these are the issues that have to be addressed for the numbers of young players to improve throughout our country.
We have to improve in non-traditional areas because our growth has been stagnant in our traditional ones. We have to find a way to reach more and more kids. But there is an attitude now in the United States that when we enter a tournament, we are there to win. We are confident that we have the athletes to do that, and that is what our players feel when they put on that USA jersey.”
When someone is selected to the U.S. Hockey Hall of Fame who gives the new inductee the phone call?
“That comes from U.S.A. Hockey. They are completely in charge of the process and the call. They have a committee of fourteen. Anyone can nominate someone who has made significant contributions to the game in the United States, and the committee will review them accordingly. I am glad I am not on that committee as those decisions keep getting tougher will all the great players who will be eligible soon!”
The group that will be inducted this year is a very good class. Mike Modano was a perennial All Star.
“It will get harder and harder to get into the Hall of Fame with all the talent coming up. By that token it shows how far American hockey has come. I do want to say that we recognize International individuals as well. We have the Gretzky Award, which of course he was the first recipient of it. That’s given periodically to the International individuals who have made a major contribution to the growth and advancement of hockey in the United States. This year, Murray Costello will be given that award. Certainly, Murray has an incredible influence not just in Canadian hockey but on International aspects as well. When you look at our American hockey since our inception you see that we have had great Canadian influence in our game. It is a struggle to reach Canada’s level, we don’t feel we are there yet, but we feel we are pretty darn close.”
But at the same time it is not something that you necessarily have to do. It is like the growth of soccer in both your country and mine. Twenty years ago it would seem impossible for the U.S. to win the World Cup. Twenty years from now it seems like it could happen.
“There is no question about it. Every sport wants to convince youngsters that their sport is the best.”
But everything starts at the grass root level. How many young kids in the States looked at the ’80 Olympic team and said I want to be the next Neal Broten, or Jim Craig or Mike Eruzione? And how many young girls a decade ago wanted to be Cammi Granato? Winning is that toxin that just makes everyone want to go the next level.
“Youngsters definitely emulate their role models. One thing that we have to work on is getting more minority participation in hockey. I know we have made strides in those regards, but we need to reach out to those communities with more participation in ice hockey”
Does the U.S. Hockey Hall of Fame have a working relationship with the Hockey Hall of Fame in Toronto?
“We don’t really have a great deal of interaction with the Hall of Fame in Toronto, but we do have a wonderful relationship. Certainly we have great respect for the Hall in Toronto. It is an outstanding tribute to our sport, but we are not competitors. We are two different entities. We are supportive of them and they are supportive of us.”
Where do you see the U.S. Hockey Hall of Fame in twenty years?
“You look at different Halls of Fames; the International Ice Hockey Federation has a Hall of Fame, but not a physical structure where people and come and celebrate and remember. Next month we are going to start a new exhibit on the WHA. They (the WHA) have a Hall of Fame, but they don’t have an actual building. We feel that the WHA helped get a lot of Americans exposure to hockey and helped a lot of American players and coaches start their career. We want to do that for them.”
I would go there just to see the old jerseys!
“We have one coming in from the Minnesota Fighting Saints. We will have about four different ones coming in our display. I think also you don’t want to induct someone into the Hall and then forget about them. We want to pay forever a tribute to those who have contributed to American hockey and we want the people to enjoy the history and remember the people and celebrate the heritage that is American Hockey.
It wasn’t just a battle on ice between the two countries, as it had the undertones of Capitalism VS Communism, Youth VS Experience and David VS Goliath. The Americans were the vast underdog, not a position familiar to the United States in many forms of athletics. It was a story worthy of Hollywood; in fact Hollywood went there twice. It had the “Do you believe in miracles?” call by Al Michaels, possible the most perfect sentence in sports broadcasting. This may have taken place thirty two years ago, but its place in American sports history remains untarnished and remains an iconic moment.
Since that time hockey has taken an upswing in America. Granted, it is far from perfect; as it is no longer carried on ESPN and numerous NHL franchises in southern cities struggle to find a fan base in their respective cities. However, there have never been more talented American players than there are now. Internationally, the United States are a serious threat to win any championship they enter; a status that was far from true when they won in Lake Placid.
U.S. Hockey has come a long way since the 1980 Winter Olympics, and as such the United States Hockey Hall of Fame has grown along with it. Officially opening in 1973 in the small town of Eveleth in Northeastern Minnesota, the institution has created a place where young Americans who lace up the skates endeavor to finish their career. We had the opportunity to chat with the Executive Director of the Hall, Doug Palazzari, who himself was a former seven year NHL player with the St. Louis Blues and is also an inducted member to the U.S. Hockey Hall of Fame. Doug shared with his thoughts on American hockey, its future, and the wonderful institution that he oversees.
The United States Hall of Fame is located in a very small town in Northeastern Minnesota. I know in doing my research that Eveleth appears to be a very appropriate place for the Hall with the history that took place there. Was there any pressure to put it in a larger city, such as Minneapolis, which would still allow it to be in a hockey state like Minnesota?
“Back in the late 60’s it was put out around the country for communities to bid on. Eveleth was chosen for a number of reasons, of course being its rich tradition and history in hockey. So many great players came from here, like Sam LoPresti who holds the record for the most saves in a regulation NHL game when he made eighty saves in a 3-2 loss against the Boston Bruins. In goal for Boston that night was Frank Brimsek who was also from here and he won the Vezina two times. In 1938 when the Chicago Black Hawks won the Stanley Cup, their goalie was Mike Karakas who was also from Eveleth. There is so much history here, they have had hockey here since the late 1800’s. Certainly there was great hockey in the East, and in Michigan, but Eveleth was chosen, and I think rightfully so.There were issues later on. Some people had the notion that it would be a good idea to move the institution to a larger metropolitan area, however saner minds prevailed. We have a beautiful museum here, particularly in the summer time. We get visitors from all over the United States and Canada, and I think it is the right place. We are doing very well at the moment.”
Do you think that having it in a small town gives it a Cooperstown feel in a way?
“I think there are some things lacking in terms of Cooperstown in that we don’t have the induction ceremony here. However in terms of being a major attraction in a small rural area, yes we are very similar.”
I would like your take on this. I can argue that in the last twenty five years that no other country has improved in Hockey more than the United States; not just internationally in competition but in terms of the high talent they provide to the professional ranks. Granted, they are not on ESPN anymore, but the hockey audience in the States is a loyal one, and it has made some solid inroads in many different communities. With that said, the U.S. is one of five countries (Canada, Russia, Sweden and the Czech Republic) that can legitimately look at any competition and feel that anything other than Gold is a disappointment. How strong are the Hall’s ties to the international game? I sense that is a very strong one. What is the main relationship that you have with U.S. Hockey?“Obviously we are very close with U.S.A. Hockey. At this point they control the induction and the ceremony. They have the committee that chooses those who are going to be enshrined. They were actually instrumental in starting this facility. Of course, our goal here is to make sure that we honor those who are inducted in the best way possible. U.S.A. Hockey is of course the national governing body for the sport, and we are hand in hand with them. The International side is very important, and we are here to sell great American hockey. We have had some wonderful success over the years, and as you said we are certainly competitive on all levels of hockey. We also recognize all the great American players in the past and the corresponding accomplishments. This includes the 1960 Gold Medal and the 1980 Gold Medal Team and the 1998 Women’s Gold Medal Team.”
I would like to touch on that last point. I believe your Hall of Fame predated the Hockey Hall of Fame in Toronto by inducting a female by inducting Cammi Granato in 2008.“I think that was just wonderful. She is a deserving selection for the Hall of Fame. I was very proud of the committee and U.S.A. Hockey with that decision.”
I noticed that your museum puts a lot of focus on the 1980 Olympic Team. Personally speaking, I went to Lake Placid and took my wife to the site of the “Miracle on Ice”. She is an immigrant from a non-hockey playing country and I explained to her the significance of the event, and shortly thereafter the Kurt Russell film, “Miracle” came out. It is story that still resonates thirty two years later. When you are at the museum, you see many children and young adults who were not around in 1980, but are taught the historical importance of the event. Is this something that you can see lasting for generations to come?
“It’s funny how time goes by. Yes, there are kids who come in and aren’t aware of it, but most have some idea, usually from the different movies they have seen. It’s been a long time, but I think it’s going to live on even longer. What Herb Brooks and those young players did was conquer the impossible. Twenty years earlier in Squaw Valley, the team that won there has been forgotten, and that was a great accomplishment as well.”
True, but 1960 did not have Al Michaels’ signature call.“It doesn’t get any better than that. I don’t think that call will get old to anybody who loves American Hockey.”
Well, not just American Hockey. Who doesn’t like the underdog story?
“I think there was the political climate that played into it too. You’re right, the hockey world is dialed in to that event.”
Where do you see U.S. Hockey in the future?
“I think it is very important to keep growing the game. Our game has grown substantially and many years ago it was a regional sport in Massachusetts, Michigan and Minnesota; but with the expansion of the National Hockey League and the growth of the many Minor Leagues has added a lot of growth in non-traditional hockey markets. It is become very competitive. We are getting talent from all places now. There is a lot of work that still needs to be done and new avenues that need to be explored. We have a great sport but there a lot of options for athletic youngsters in this country. We really need to find a way to make the game more affordable, and with it being such a time consuming activity, it is difficult for families where both parents work, as most households are. I think that these are the issues that have to be addressed for the numbers of young players to improve throughout our country.
We have to improve in non-traditional areas because our growth has been stagnant in our traditional ones. We have to find a way to reach more and more kids. But there is an attitude now in the United States that when we enter a tournament, we are there to win. We are confident that we have the athletes to do that, and that is what our players feel when they put on that USA jersey.”
When someone is selected to the U.S. Hockey Hall of Fame who gives the new inductee the phone call?
“That comes from U.S.A. Hockey. They are completely in charge of the process and the call. They have a committee of fourteen. Anyone can nominate someone who has made significant contributions to the game in the United States, and the committee will review them accordingly. I am glad I am not on that committee as those decisions keep getting tougher will all the great players who will be eligible soon!”
The group that will be inducted this year is a very good class. Mike Modano was a perennial All Star.
“It will get harder and harder to get into the Hall of Fame with all the talent coming up. By that token it shows how far American hockey has come. I do want to say that we recognize International individuals as well. We have the Gretzky Award, which of course he was the first recipient of it. That’s given periodically to the International individuals who have made a major contribution to the growth and advancement of hockey in the United States. This year, Murray Costello will be given that award. Certainly, Murray has an incredible influence not just in Canadian hockey but on International aspects as well. When you look at our American hockey since our inception you see that we have had great Canadian influence in our game. It is a struggle to reach Canada’s level, we don’t feel we are there yet, but we feel we are pretty darn close.”
But at the same time it is not something that you necessarily have to do. It is like the growth of soccer in both your country and mine. Twenty years ago it would seem impossible for the U.S. to win the World Cup. Twenty years from now it seems like it could happen.
“There is no question about it. Every sport wants to convince youngsters that their sport is the best.”
But everything starts at the grass root level. How many young kids in the States looked at the ’80 Olympic team and said I want to be the next Neal Broten, or Jim Craig or Mike Eruzione? And how many young girls a decade ago wanted to be Cammi Granato? Winning is that toxin that just makes everyone want to go the next level.
“Youngsters definitely emulate their role models. One thing that we have to work on is getting more minority participation in hockey. I know we have made strides in those regards, but we need to reach out to those communities with more participation in ice hockey”
Does the U.S. Hockey Hall of Fame have a working relationship with the Hockey Hall of Fame in Toronto?
“We don’t really have a great deal of interaction with the Hall of Fame in Toronto, but we do have a wonderful relationship. Certainly we have great respect for the Hall in Toronto. It is an outstanding tribute to our sport, but we are not competitors. We are two different entities. We are supportive of them and they are supportive of us.”
Where do you see the U.S. Hockey Hall of Fame in twenty years?“You look at different Halls of Fames; the International Ice Hockey Federation has a Hall of Fame, but not a physical structure where people and come and celebrate and remember. Next month we are going to start a new exhibit on the WHA. They (the WHA) have a Hall of Fame, but they don’t have an actual building. We feel that the WHA helped get a lot of Americans exposure to hockey and helped a lot of American players and coaches start their career. We want to do that for them.”
I would go there just to see the old jerseys!
“We have one coming in from the Minnesota Fighting Saints. We will have about four different ones coming in our display. I think also you don’t want to induct someone into the Hall and then forget about them. We want to pay forever a tribute to those who have contributed to American hockey and we want the people to enjoy the history and remember the people and celebrate the heritage that is American Hockey.
