Two months ago we were able to have a conversation with Mike Litherland, who runs the “Induct Janet Jackson to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame” campaign that is gaining a sizable following on both Facebook and Twitter. We knew then that we wanted to continue interviewing heads of Hall of Fame campaigns and turn it into a regular series here at Notinhalloffame.com. With that in mind we turned our attention to Washington D.C., specifically towards the most powerful Offensive Lines in the history of Professional Football.

In the National Football League, the press generally goes to the skill positions, ie, the Quarterback, the Running Back and the Wide Receiver. Usually when the camera focuses on an Offensive Linemen, it is for a costly holding penalty. Linemen are respected, but never the stars; but that changed in the 1980’s coverage of the Washington Redskins games with the emergence of the “Hogs”.

Originally consisting of Russ Grimm, Joe Jacoby, Jeff Bostic, Mark May and George Starke, the nickname was generated not because of their large size but due to an innocuous comment by Joe Bugel, the Offensive Line Coach who told his line, “Okay, you hogs, let’s get running down there.”.

That one sentence was all it took and a phenomenon was born. The sophisticated Washington fan base latched onto this group and quickly realized that had more than just a tag line that John Madden extolled the virtues of on Sunday afternoons. This was a formidable group that made stars out of average football players, and did it over and over again. It also made a group of football fans celebrities, too.

Calling themselves “The Hogettes”, a group of a dozen men dressed up in pig snouts and dresses that would be worn old women and for many was as entertaining as the game itself. Appearing in the stands for Redskins home games for three decades, the Hogettes may have hung up their snouts, but there is one more task left to perform; helping their former great tackle, Joe Jacoby, receive a bust in Canton, Ohio.

We had a chance to speak with the Hogettes, who are pushingto add a second member from their beloved Offensive Line into the Professional Football Hall of Fame. As someone who watched the Redskins intensely for years and who has a relationship with Joe Jacoby himself, the Hogettes bring a unique perspective to this discussion and whenever we have a chance to chat with passionate football fans, it is a job we will always sign up for.



The first thing that I want to get into before we really get started, is that in doing my research for this piece, I was pleasantly surprised to learn that the Hogettes did so many charitable endeavors. I had no idea about it! I think that is incredible and I wanted to first commend you for it.

“Thanks, we appreciate that. That is something that not everyone knows about. We were more than just a bunch of crazy football fans, though it kind of morphed into that.”

And this has continued even though you don’t “perform” in the stands anymore?

“Yes. A lot of the guys still participate in it (charity work), and we still get invited often. We turn down any formal requests to get dressed up, since we are retired, but we are finding that we are still asked to come out.[i] We were just out at Mark Rypien’s golf benefit and a lot of the fundraisers we have done in the past.”

Your current push, and I notice that this is a focal point of your official website, is to get Joe Jacoby inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. His line mate, Russ Grimm, was enshrined some time ago.[ii] Jacoby has received a lot of respect throughout the league, and from Grimm himself who stated that he should be there.[iii]

I am sure you are asked often why Joe should be in the Hall of Fame. Do you have a quick sum up that you usually go to, or a set of intangibles that you go to that explains why he should be in the Hall of Fame?

“What I kind of go to is when you look at the Redskins as one of the great teams of the 80’s when Joe Gibbs was coaching, Joe (Jacoby) played Left Tackle, the glamour spot of the Offensive Line. When you think about the Washington Redskins (of that time period) you think of that Offensive Line.

There are great lines out there, but there are only a few that were so great that they transcend time. The ones that come to mind are (1970’s) Oakland[iv], Pittsburgh back in the day[v], and the Houston Oilers (in the 80’s)[vi], they have had two Linemen enter to Pro Football Hall of Fame, and rightfully so, but the Hogs are right there with them.

We could argue all day about who was the best (Offensive) Line of all time, and of course we’re partial to the Hogs, but what really sets them apart is that they went to four Super Bowls, won three with three different Quarterbacks and three different Running Backs.[vii] To me that speaks volumes about what was the one constant on all of those Super Bowl teams, and that was that Offensive Line.[viii] Jacoby was the anchor of that line and Jacoby held it down during the glory years.

I just feel that this line was so good, and no matter who you talk to, they will tell you that they were in the top five of all time and they should have two players inducted.[ix] Russ got in in 2010 and there should be another. Sometimes when one member of a line gets in they feel that the entire group has been honored. We feel that this line was so good that they deserve two.”

Why do you think so far that he has not gotten in? Thus far he has only made it to the Semi-Finalist Round. Do you think it is a political thing, or due to the glut of talent eligible or is there another factor that maybe we are not thinking of?

“I think a combination of a lot of it. It is very political. Like I said, because Russ is in, they can say that they recognized that. The other thing I think that really plays itself is in the last decade you have seen the NFL push the rules towards the offense and you see offensive (skill players) put up really big numbers. You are seeing some phenomenal numbers from Receivers and Running Backs and of course some advances (statistically) in the Passing Game. Indirectly that takes some of the shine off the Left Tackles and other Offensive Linemen.

There are some players in recent memory, like for example going back to Walter Jones who got in last year.[x] You can make a great argument that Joe should have gone in before him. I’m not taking anything away from Jones. He was a great player, he went to one Super Bowl, didn’t win any. Jacoby was the premier Left Tackle on the great line, and that line again transcends having more than one man (inducted).

Going back to the Redskins, they have only one retired number, that of Sammy Baugh.[xi] Saying that the organization has a tradition of “unofficially” retiring number, Joe Theismann being one of them.[xii] I don’t believe they have given that honor to either Grimm or Jacoby.

“I’ve seen 66 or 68 worn since.”[xiii]

Would that be something that you would push for in the future?

“The Redskins don’t have a history of retiring numbers for whatever reason. They do have a history of not giving them out. That is how the Redskins have chosen to handle that. Other teams have certainly done that (retired numbers frequently).”

What kind of relationship does this movement have with Joe Jacoby himself?

“We wanted to make sure Joe was O.K. with it. Joe did not ask us and he is one of the most modest guys you will ever meet. He has no plans in politicking for himself, like Harry Carson did.[xiv] Joe has no desire to do that. Joe is coaching the Offensive Line foe Concordia University, and he is happy doing that. He is a humble guy, extremely grateful that we decided to do this.

When we were at Mark Rypien’s golf tournament, and we told him what we were thinking. Mikey T, the head of the Hogettes has been talking about this for the last few years and as we were approaching retiring (The Hogettes), we discussed how Joe is the one guy we really needed to help get into the Hall. We wanted that to be our swan song. Anything we can do to keep his name on the forefront; that is our goal.”

There is still a lot of time.

“There is. He retired in ’93 and still has another nine years before he has to go the Senior route.”[xv]

Having said that, the Senior route is what got Ray Guy finally inducted.[xvi]

“Yeah, I’m not saying that this would be the worst thing, but you’re talking about another nine years. I’m pretty objective when it comes to this, I know I am a homer in regards to the Redskins, but I just feel their Offensive Line was too good to ignore. When you look at the Cowboys and the Niners they had a great supporting cast, they had Montana. Who did we have? We had Theismann, Rypien and Williams. It was always a different cast of characters around that O-Line.”

They certainly made Joe Theismann a star, and as much as he remains a public figure and well known to the next generation of Football fans, nobody is pushing for Joe Theismann to be in the Hall of Fame.

“Right, and no one is pushing for Mark Rypien or Doug Williams either. Riggins got in, which is good, but it was the O-Line that made those teams go.”

Do you think that the Hall of Fame committee puts too much premium on Pro Bowl selections? Jacoby only had four, but perhaps they don’t look at the bigger picture?

“I think that can happen, especially lately. The good side is that I am a firm believer that you don’t have to have won a bunch of Super Bowls to be a Hall of Famer. I look at the Buffalo Bills who went to four Super Bowls and didn’t win, but they are still one of the best teams I have ever seen. I think some times they can put too much weight on that as well. I could see that being a little too much weighted but I can see that those who don’t have Super Bowl rings being penalized, where Joe has three. I don’t worry about that argument a whole lot. I think it was thirteen different Running Backs that at least had one 100-yard game with that Line, which is pretty phenomenal.

If Jacoby becomes a Finalist, generally they don’t revert back to being just a Semi-Finalist. It would be huge for him just to make that leap, even if he does not make it to the Hall this year.

“Yes, he made it to the Semis. If we can get him to that last group, then maybe we can get that one last step. Russ (Grimm) was great some believe that Joe should have gone in before him. Still, both of them should be in.

Thank you so much for your time!

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[i] The Hogettes officially retired in 2013.
[ii] Grimm was inducted in 2010, after being a Finalist the five years previously.
[iii] Grimm has said this on many occasions to many media outlets.
[iv] They produced four Hall of Fame inductees, Art Shell, Bob Brown, Gene Upshaw and Jim Otto.
[v] That team was anchored by Center, Mike Webster.
[vi] Mike Munchak and Bruce Matthews entered the Pro Football Hall of Fame from that roster.
[vii] Joe Theismann and John Riggins in Super Bowl XVII, Doug Williams and Timmy Smith in Super Bowl in XXII and Mark Rypien and Earnest Byner in Super Bowl XXVI.
[viii] Of those six above players, only Riggins is in the Hall of Fame. The other five have never been considered for Canton.
[ix] This is a logical argument. Even diehard fans of the Dallas Cowboys would have a hard time disputing that.
[x] Jones entered the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2014, his first year of eligibility.
[xi] Baugh was the Redskins Quarterback from 1937 to 1952 and was a member of the first Pro Football Hall of Fame Class in 1963.
[xii] The other former Redskins who have had their number “unofficially retired” are Sonny Jurgensen, Darrell Green, Charley Taylor, Larry Brown, John Riggins, Bobby Mitchell, Dave Butz, Sam Huff and Art Monk.
[xiii] These were numbers worn by Grimm and Jacoby respectively.
[xiv] Carson was inducted in 2006. He was very vocal about being snubbed for years to the point where in 2004 he asked for his name to be removed from the ballot.
[xv] Annually the Pro Football Hall of Fame announces one or two candidates from the Senior Committee. They automatically earn a spot into the Finalist round.
[xvi] Guy entered in 2014, his first year on the Senior Ballot. He was a multi time Finalist in the past.

As you can imagine from the name of our website, and the content that we create, the origins of Hall of Fames and the thought process behind it is fascinating to us, and myself in particular as the owner of this site. I think it is a safe assumption to say that we know why they are created: out of the need for us to celebrate the absolute elite in any profession. Recognizing that, each Hall of Fame has their own vision, though for the Las Vegas based Boxing Hall of Fame owned and operated by Steve Lott, it was a vision decades in the making.

Speaking with Steve was like sitting under the learning tree of the sweet science. A historian of the sport and disciple of Jim Jacobs, Steve spoke to me about the long struggle to use their vast Boxing film library and create a Hall of Fame that celebrated just the fighters, and not the ones behind the scenes.

Opening as part of Score, a sport themed attraction at the Luxor Hotel in the Las Vegas Strip in 2012, Steve Lott has created just that, a vibrant exhibit utilizing the historical and priceless film archive and embracing the modern social media to push his product. This differentiates this Hall of Fame from all of the other Boxing related Halls and uses every square inch they are given in Boxing’s prime real estate.

We spoke about the long path to the creation of his Boxing Hall of Fame, his personal relationship with former Heavyweight Champion, Mike Tyson, and the state of Boxing itself and how he views its past, present and future.

Admittedly, I far prefer speaking with former athletes than current ones. Not only are they more likely to speak what is on their mind as opposed to upsetting the proverbial apple cart on their respected team or league, they have reached the stage in life where they are more likely to reach objectivity on their careers.

It isn’t that I don’t love talking about statistics and moments, as I certainly do, and a good chunk of this website is dedicated to looking at just that, but discussing how an athlete evolves in their life in ways that don’t reflect on a stat sheet is often the greater story. Once that story finishes, the transition from “athlete to civilian” can prove to be the greatest challenge that any athlete, especially a superstar in their profession can face.

Still, I have always despised the perception that all athletes are one-dimensional beings with the inability to think of anything other than themselves or their chosen sport. More often than not, that is the perception that we thrust upon them, and as it is their athletic exploits that garner the most press, and often their only press. This is not necessarily wrong, as that is their job and what put them in the public eye in the first place but when I had the opportunity to talk to one of Basketball’s true renaissance men, there was no way I was only going to chat with him about what he only did on a basketball court.

Here at Notinhalloffame.com we take pleasure in discussing as many Halls of Fame as possible, and engaging in the debate of that topic. It is a topic we are passionate about, but admittedly our scope has always been intentionally general. With the amount of categories that we cover; we have to!

With that in mind, we thought it would be fun to conduct a series of interviews with individuals who are conducting online campaigns to get their respective artist/athlete inducted to the Hall of Fame.

The first person we reached out to was Mike Litherland, from Atlanta, Georgia, who operates the Induct Janet Jackson to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame campaign. It has a very active Facebook page, holding a sizable near 14,000 Likes.

Janet Jackson has been eligible for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame since 2007, and a case could be made that she was the biggest female singing star in the world at one point in time. Jackson ruled Pop and R&B airwaves for fifteen years, and while casual music fans may not view her as influential, music history has shown that a large amount of Janet clones existed and she was a seamless bridge from Pop to R&B in a way that few could match.

We asked Mike a few questions about his push to induct Janet Jackson to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

On a personal level, what first attracted you to Janet Jackson's music, and what you say is her essential album for someone not familiar with her work to listen to?

“I first remember Janet from her appearances on Good Times. From a musical perspective, though, I remember when she performed ‘Young Love’ on American Bandstand. I was pretty young at the time, probably 11 or 12, but there was just something about her that stood out and made me take notice. I became a 'fan' when Control was released and she completely dominated the music world and the Pop, R&B and Dance charts. I remember hearing Janet all over the radio - and seeing her videos all over the place. I remember being obsessed with Friday Night Videos (on NBC, maybe?). They had a segment called Friday Night Video Fights and my siblings and I would call the 800 # to vote any time one of Janet's videos was in the battle. Those were good times. On MTV, Janet was one of the first African-American female artists to be placed in heavy rotation.

It's difficult to decide on one essential album. As a fan, I consider ‘The Velvet Rope’ to be her masterpiece. It's raw, powerful and very introspective and covers a lot of territory. A very, very close second would be Rhythm Nation 1814. It's quite possibly one of the most cohesive albums in history and would probably be the best pick to play for someone who isn't familiar with Janet's work. Both albums have been listed on Rolling Stone’s list of greatest all-time albums.”

What triggered you to want to try to get her inducted?

“I've enjoyed the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame for years and years. I grew up in Dayton, Ohio so I've actually been to the museum three or four times. I began following the nominations and inductions ten or so years ago. I had no idea how political and convoluted the nomination process is/was. I remember being surprised that Madonna was inducted after her first year of eligibility. Once that happened, though, it made Janet's nomination chances also appear to be a no-brainer. Janet's been eligible since 2007 and still hasn't even received a nomination yet, though. It's definitely a head-scratcher since Janet rivaled and matched her peers of that time (MJ, Prince, Madonna) and they've all been inducted. Janet broke a lot of records and doesn't always get the credit she deserves. I guess that's why I decided to get involved and created the Facebook page a little over a year ago.”

What are the main attributes that Janet has in her music that makes you feel she is a Hall of Famer?

“Janet was able to emerge out of her brother's shadow and even eclipse his popularity during the 90's. She's a very savvy businesswoman and her commercial success is undeniable. She was virtually unstoppable in the 80's and 90's. The Rhythm Nation World Tour in 1990 remains the biggest debut tour of any artist in music history.

The Nomination Committee doesn't factor commercial success into their nomination equation, though. The fact that Janet wrote, co-wrote and co-produced on all albums from 1986's Control through 2006's 20 Y.O. shows how involved she was in the creative process of all of those hit records and albums. That should make quite a statement.

Janet Jackson, Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis created a magical dream team of sorts. Contrary to what some may believe, Janet Jackson was no puppet. She was in control, both literally and figuratively - and proved it with each release being more successful and having a bigger impact than its predecessor. Janet Jackson's music is the soundtrack of the 80's, 90's and 00's.

And then the 2004 Super Bowl performance happened, damaging her career & musical legacy…but we'll get to that in a bit.

Why do you think she has been ignored by the Hall, and not even nominated at this point?

“The fact that Janet hasn't released a new studio album since 2008 has probably hindered her chances a bit. She starred in several hit movies and had a very successful Number Ones Up Close & Personal tour, but has remained out of the spotlight of the public eye for several years now.

I also think there's a bias in the NomCom. It seems to be a very political process and decisions seem to be heavily influenced by a handful of the more persuasive members of the committee. And obviously, there's quite a backlog of deserving artists. At some point, though, they're going to have to add Janet to their nomination discussions. I'm just pushing to have that happen sooner rather than later.

Rumor has it that she's finishing new music now, so hopefully the dry spell is just about over. If the new album is even moderately successful that should also send quite a statement. To have such an incredibly successful career and still be doing it after 30+ years is pretty amazing…and shows tremendous longevity.”

Do you think (serious question) that the Super Bowl Nipplegate affected her chances?

“I won't spend a lot of energy on this question, but the Super Bowl fallout seriously damaged her career and I'm sure that's had an impact on her nomination chances. Should it have a negative impact on her nomination, though? I mean - what's more "Rock & Roll" than that?!?!

In all seriousness, though, I do wish someone could explain why Janet was completely blacklisted in the industry and destroyed by the media yet Justin Timberlake remains unscathed and more popular than ever. I'll leave it that.”

If Janet gets inducted, Is there another act that you feel passionate about getting inducted?

“I'd really like to see The Cure nominated again. I think The Smiths and Depeche Mode are also deserving. Other artists I'd support are: Joy Division/New Order, Bjork, and De La Soul off the top of my head. Other deserving artists that I hope to see nominated when they become eligible are PJ Harvey, Alanis Morissette and A Tribe Called Quest.”

We thank Mike for his time and we look forward to doing more of these type of pieces in the future.

You can like this page on Facebook at this link: https://www.facebook.com/InductJanetJacksonIntoTheRockRollHallOfFame

Or you can follow them on Twitter at @inductjanet